Chick-fil-A

I am just back from a quick trip to my ancestral soil in Northeast Arkansas. I have only one thing to confess: although I ate catfish, dry rub pork ribs, and a steak cooked over a possibly illegal charcoal fire, I did not eat at Chick-fil-A. I dearly wish I had done so. The WaPo explains:

It's not every day that the leader of a big business steps into a national debate that has the potential to offend many of its customers.

But Dan Cathy, president of the popular fast food chain Chick-fil-A, has done just that, saying on a radio show that "we're inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at him and say we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage. And I pray God's mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude that thinks we have the audacity to redefine what marriage is all about."

Following backlash after those remarks, Cathy then told the Baptist Press in an article posted July 16 that he is "guilty as charged" and is very "supportive of the family — the biblical definition of the family unit."

That put Chick-fil-A into the boiling oil of the political kitchen. There are two issues involved in the "backlash". The first one is easy. Chicago Alderman Proco "Joe" Moreno promised to deny business permits to Chick-fil-A because he is offended by the views of its management. Mayor Rahm Emanuel backed him up. Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino made similar remarks.

This is blatantly unconstitutional. If government officials threaten to deny a person or a firm a business license because the former are offended by the political/religious opinions of the latter runs afoul of both the free speech and free exercise clauses of the First Amendment. The threats are probably hollow but they demonstrate that Moreno, Emanuel and Menino do not understand or do not care about civil liberties.

The propriety of boycotts and protests against Chick-fil-A is a trickier question. If I discovered that a restaurant I frequently visit made substantial contributions to causes I vehemently oppose, I would probably deny that firm my patronage. Most of us, myself included, don't worry a lot about this kind of thing simply because deciding where to eat is difficult enough. Still, it's reasonable to wonder how many pennies you fork over for a dinner are going to support some outfit that might give you indigestion. That is responsible consumer choice.

By contrast, the fact that the owners or managers of a company hold opinions that offend me should probably be irrelevant. Should a Jew refuse to enter a cab driven by a Muslim, or vice versa? That kind of thinking tears at the fabric of a liberal society. I may care what contributions Barnes and Noble makes when I buy a coffee to drink while I make use of their free Wi-Fi, but I probably shouldn't care (and I don't) what gods they pray to or what they think about abortion or female circumcision.

I am in favor of legal same sex marriage and so I am at odds with Dan Cathy. I think that freedom of speech and freedom of religion are more important and so I wish I had made it into a Chick-fil-A for a quick bite.

Comments

[duggersd]

I find it interesting liberals tell conservatives they are intolerant. This is a great case in point. Here we have an owner of a company with Christian values who contributes to Christian causes and other causes that are in line with his values. His company closes his stores on Sunday because he believes in keeping the Sabbath. His company does not discriminate against anyone based upon gender, race, religion or sexual orientation. Yet because he spoke his mind, liberal groups are trying to cut his company out of being able to open in certain locations. Liberals do not care diddley squat about the Constitution. If you do not meet their standards, they will try to run you out of business. I have seen this in the Democrat party as well. Just let a Democrat indicate he/she is pro-life and not pro-abortion and that person is shunned by the party. We have seen this in Sioux Falls and in the National Democrat Convention. So who are the hypocrites?

[Bill Fleming]

http://www.hoursmap.com/s/south%20dakota/chick-fil-a-hours-locations-s1256055

I'm not seeing any outlets in SD. Too bad. I'll just have to not have some other chicken sandwich.

I agree that taking government action on this would be crossing the line. Same as telling Muslims they can't have a cultural center a few blocks from ground-zero in downtown NYC.

[Dave]

I seem to remember a band a few years ago that made a comment about how they weren't so proud that they were from th same state as Bush II. Suddenly they got no radio play, people boycotted them, and some stores even pulled their CDs...

Now think for a moment @duggersd, and consider what you would do if a business or restaurant that you frequent was using a foundation to forward $2M in annual donations to the local mosque, Planned Parenthood or the ACLU... What would @duggersd do?

And what exactly are the constitutional issues here? Is @duggersd implying that it is in violation of The Constitution to boycott a business???

[duggersd]

There was a story in the Arduous Liar last week about someone from USD who was collecting signatures to keep the company out. Another example of a liberal who cannot stand it when someone voices an opinion different from his own. http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012120725021 So, maybe there will be one in your Alma Mater soon?

[Bill Fleming]

If you're talking to me DuggerSD, I didn't go to USD. I went to Yankton and Mount Marty Colleges.

[duggersd]

First, Dave, I have purchased some insurance from Progressive. They give to a lot of liberal causes. I do not ask them about that kind of stuff. If they have a product I want to use, then I purchase it. As for whether I suggest boycotting is illegal, no I do not. It is the right of someone to boycott. I think it is rather silly. However if an alderman or a mayor blocks a business from going into place because the owner has a certain political view, I believe that may be considered unconstitutional. Perhaps you have missed those stories and the backtracking by those people? What do you think, Dave? Is that appropriate? Here is another example of a liberal and his intolerance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPLNgkP9nzc BTW, I hear this guy got fired for his actions.
Sorry Bill, I thought at one time you had made a reference to being in Vermillion for school.

[Bill Fleming]

I think DuggerSD and I agree on this one. How refreshing.

[duggersd]

Mierda ocurre, Bill. ;-)

[Ken Blanchard]

Welcome back, everyone. It turns out that I needed to update my credit card info at Type Pad. They cut you guys off to squeeze me.

Dave: good point. If I stopped listening to bands that have leftist views, I would pretty much have to stop listening to jazz and rock. I ain't gonna.

I only insist on this point: if you stop patronizing a business or whatever that contributes to a cause you oppose, that is perfectly reasonable. If you stop patronizing the same because the owners/managers simply because they hold or express views different from yours, that is bigotry.

[Bill Fleming]

How about if you start patronizing a business you've never patronized before because you support their bigotry and end up buying heart attack sandwiches you don't really need to be eating?

[duggersd]

As I recall the Dixie Chicks situation, they, on foreign soil bad mouthed not only our president, but our country. Considering country music tends to be God, country and mom's apple pie, I can see how country fans would be offended by them. If someone is that offensive, I can see how most country music fans would tell them they don't want to listen to their stuff any more. This is a totally different situation. Cathy does not discriminate against anybody. Cathy has the same view as President Obama up to a couple of months ago. Many people have this view. It is not bigotry. And, I might add, Cathy shows a lot more tolerance than people who have come out against him.

[Donald Pay]

Trying to rewrite history, duggersd? The Dixie Chicks made a snide comment about one person, President Bush, that didn't invoke religious intolerance. This CEO made a statement of religious hatred and bigotry against a sizable minority of the population of the world. There is a difference. The faux victimhood of the right is on full display here.

Eating corporate-raised chicken full of antibiotics is about the unhealthiest thing you can do. I wouldn't eat there out of concern for my health and the health of the planet. I hope conservatives eat up, though. The sooner they die, the better.

[Miranda]

"This CEO made a statement of religious hatred and bigotry against a sizable minority of the population of the world."

"I hope conservatives eat up, though. The sooner they die, the better."

So the real problem here isn't that Cathy is bigoted or hateful, but
that he's religious?

[duggersd]

Donald, almost every time you post, you spew hatred towards somebody. You are one of the poster boys of intolerance. The Dixie Chicks slammed President Bush while in London. Country music fans took exception to that. They wondered why nobody wanted to by their music anymore. When I was in Egypt and talking to Egyptians, I did not express my feelings towards President Obama as I would here in the US. Foreign soil is not where you criticize the US President.

[Dave]

http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/2012/08/chick-fil-a-its-about-the-bigotry.html

because you should read it there rather than me cutting and pasting here...

[Ken Blanchard]

Bill: much as I value your sound council, I am not yet ready to let you decide which sandwiches I "need to be eating". As for bigotry, what would you think of me if I refused to eat at a restaurant owned by Muslims because I am offended by their religious views? Surely I have a right to make that decision, but wouldn't that make me a rather intolerant fellow?

I think I have made it clear that I do not support Dan Cathy's views. You may not yet have entirely forgotten the distinction between supporting someone's views and defending his right to hold those views.

[Bill Fleming]

KB, you can eat whatever heart attack sandwich you please of course, for whatever reason you please. That's what I do. ;^) I was just paraphrasing your assertion that:

"I only insist on this point: if you stop patronizing a business or whatever that contributes to a cause you oppose, that is perfectly reasonable. If you stop patronizing the same because the owners/managers simply because they hold or express views different from yours, that is bigotry."

Seems to me on the flip side of your argument there are almost certainly many who are buying the Chick-fil-a product in order to express their solidarity with other like-minded bigots who hate gays. I didn't intend to include you in their number. A simpler way to say it I suppose, would be to do a slight edit on your last sentence thus:

"If you [patronize] the owners/managers simply because they hold or express views [similar to] yours, that is bigotry."

I think you'll probably agree:

1. That the inverse of your assertion is also correct (always a good logic check)

and

2. That your sentence needed editing anyway.

[Ken Blanchard]

Bill: you force me to think. That's why I pay you the big bucks! I don't agree that patronizing a business because you agree with the owners on some issue is the same as boycotting the same simply because you disagree. When Muslims or Buddhists are attracted to someone or some enterprise because the owner has similar views, that looks to me to be perfectly benign and indeed part of the natural way that communities arise. I was first attracted to Wayne Shorter's jazz because I read that he was a Buddhist.

Boycotting a business simply because the owner is one of "those people" is something else. Still (here is where you made me think), I wouldn't rent a room from a man who I knew to be a Nazi or Klansman. I wouldn't buy a Chick-fil-A sandwich if the owner advocated jailing homosexuals.

The temptation to raise any policy disagreement to the level of "those guys are Nazis" is a grave threat to civil discourse. I am in favor of same sex marriage, but I know decent and carrying people who are not.

[Bill Fleming]

So did you read Dave's link, KB? http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/2012/08/chick-fil-a-its-about-the-bigotry.html

[Ken Blanchard]

Bill: I did now. One thing is for sure: I am not going to apply for a position at Chick-fil-A. Wait till they see my posts on gay marriage and evolution!

In fact, I have a story that is germane. I was once contacted about an open position at a conservative college. It was an attractive position, but the fellow on the phone advised me that anyone who was to teach there had to confess Jesus Christ as his personal savior. Regardless of my spiritual beliefs, that is just not the kind of operation that I was fit for. I am too much fond of freedom of thought.

Still, I am not opposed to the existence of such a college. If someone wants to attend or pay for his daughter to attend a college where all the Professors are required to confess their faith, I say fine.

[Bill Fleming]

Good stuff, KB. Suggestion then ...for when you attend your first Chick-fil-a solidarity rally... you might just want to keep your mouth full of sandwich. LOL.

[Ken Blanchard]

You're making me hungry, Bill. Does LOL stand for "lots of laughs" or "lots of love"? I forget. If the latter, I love you too.

[Bill Fleming]

Either one works for me, KB.

The usual translation is "Laugh Out Loud."

It's more of a meta or an abbreviated stage director's note than a salutation (as in, 'okay you can't see may face right now, so let me tell you that I am sitting here by myself laughing out loud like an idiot.')

Just so you know, I think of blogs as drama scripts as opposed to other literary forms (essays, editorials, etc.) They are meant to be "listened too" in the minds ear.