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Friday, May 04, 2012


Stan Gibilisco

What great fodder for Romney.

What a pity that a hero and his family may soon die.

Of course, if this thing ends in tragedy, it will be George W. Bush's fault.

Ken Blanchard

Stan: I think Romney would be wiser to say out of it for now. When Reagan was running against Carter, he was very careful not to use the Iranian hostage crisis as an issue. It spoke for itself.

I agree, however, that it will turn out to be Bush's fault. Everything is Bush's fault.

Bill Fleming

I share your frustration over this issue as I'm sure you share mine about Tiananmen Square and Ronald Reagan in 1989.


No one is blaming Bush KB, nor is blame appropriate. There is no "dark mark of shame" if Chen chose to leave the embassy or if he needed to leave for medical treatment. It would be shameful if we had held him there against his will. And the only basis you have of accusing U.S. official and Obama of anything is he-said-they-said contradictory accounts and a contrived implication nothing was being done to help Chen.

Apparently much was being done. Reports this morning are the matter is being resolved with Chen and his family coming to the U.S. to study law on a fellowship. But you couldn't wait to take a pathetic, cheap shot.

I can't help but wonder though, had the dissident been from Mexico or Saudi Arabia, would those of you on the Right been so quick to criticize--especially if it had been the Bush administration that didn't immediately offer asylum and a free law degree. Here's a tit for tat cheap shot: I though you were the folks who wanted to "protect our borders".

Bill Fleming

Just googled this and there is a gigantic anti-Obama echo chamber out there on this issue. Pretty much meat-head reactionary as per A.I.'s analysis. And here I thought maybe KB was thinking for himself for a change. One can always hope.

Ken Blanchard

There is no degree of incompetence on the part of this administration that you guys won't excuse. You have not one drop of sympathy for this guy, but plenty for poor, poor, pitiful Barack. Another deal is being prepared, says A.I. Great!

Here it is: "Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton on Friday embraced a statement from China that blind activist Chen Guangcheng could seek permission to study abroad, with U.S. officials urging the Chinese government to “expeditiously process” his application for travel documents.

But China’s Foreign Ministry said the self-taught lawyer would have to apply “through normal channels ... like any other Chinese citizen” — which would mean returning home to the village where he has been confined and beaten, in order to obtain a passport."

Remind me not to let you guys plan my vacation.


So Bill, why were you so disappointed with Ronald Reagan's response to Tiananmen Square? Seeing as President Reagan was not even President at the time, are you thinking he should have jumped back in? BTW, what would you have wanted President Bush to have done?

Bill Fleming

Human rights issues transcend politics. Or at least they should.

Bill Fleming

Dugger, exactly, what do you expect the president to do about it?


The reports I'm seeing indicate Chen and his family will face no problems leaving China KB. This in a report posted at the Huffington Post: At a Foreign Ministry briefing, spokesman Liu Weimin also confirmed that Chen faces no pending criminal charges, indirectly acknowledging that the house arrest he and his family endured the past 20 months in their rural home was illegal.

"According to Chinese laws, he is a regular citizen. He can absolutely go through regular formalities by normal means," Liu said. The rest is here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/04/chen-guangchen-study-abroad_n_1477372.html

Maybe something will happen to undo all this, but so far, it appears the matter is being resolved in a manner that should be acceptable to all except those on the Right hoping for political gain based on feigned outrage because Obama did not personally intercede with some feat of deus ex machina to instantly bring Chen and his family to the U.S.

So tell me KB, what is it you think should be done? Should the Chens hop on the plane with Secretary Clinton as requested? If so, it sounds like she better get a damn big plane as Chen won't be the last dissident looking for a ride out of China--or dozens of other countries, for that matter.


Oh, I forgot to mention I'm thinking about opening a travel agency KB. My target demographic will be conservative, white males that believe American government is too big. I will be featuring tours of Somalia, body guards optional. Interested?

Donald Pay

Updated CNN story correcting the information KB used to base his story on:


I used to work at a weekly newspaper. One of the advantages we had over the daily was we could work on a story longer and get a closer approximation to the truth. Time allows greater information to roll out. We will get a better understanding of what happened at the embassy, but the right wing echochamber means we will have to cut through a lot of crap (like KB's ost) to finally come to the real story.


The only incompetence apparent here was/is the Rights jumping the gun on a story that appears false--as per Donald above. That includes you KB. And by the way, where do you get off saying I have no sympathy for Chen. Just one more example of you assuming something not in evidence. Kind of sad really.

Note also my using the word apparent. I only know what I've seen in the media. The reports may or may not be totally accurate so I make no absolute assumptions but one: there is--at least so far, no, none, zip, nada concrete basis for accusing Chen or the administration of any wrongdoing or incompetence. Thus, there is nothing to excuse.


Harking back to my "cheap shot", maybe it's pricier than I thought. Using your standards of evidence KB, I will assume you support House Republican efforts to weaken protections for immigrants in the Violence Against Women Act: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/04/violence-against-women-act-gop-undocumented-abuse_n_1478125.html

Thus, you have not one drop of sympathy for abused women, but plenty of poor, pitiful House Republicans. (I will admit they are pitiful.)


Bill, I asked you first. Just what did you want President Bush to have done? I have not even criticized BHO on this, only questioned your complaining of the handling by Reagan of the incident. Unlike many on the right and left, I like to let some facts develop. From my understanding the US helped in Chen's escape. There are varying interpretations of what was or was not said in the embassy.

Bill Fleming

DuggerSD, thanks for the Reagan/Bush correction. My recollection is that our government tried to impose sanctions in a "measured repsonse" to the military crackdown and that our actions were ultimately ineffective.

I found that frustrating, as is the fact that we continue do business with any country that oppresses its people. As an economic and political world leader it seems we could do more with our influence than we do sometimes.

The GOP has shown that it's not afraid to bring the world economy to the brink of collapse for all the wrong reasons. I guess I'd maybe like to see us at least pretend like we might do it for the right reasons once in awhile.


OK, Bill. You want them to do nothing. And the Obama administration is continuing the Bush policies of doing nothing.

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