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Sunday, January 08, 2012


Stan Gibilisco

On this issue, I have mixed feelings. (But then, I have mixed feelings on most issues.)

I made a couple of comments on Cory's blog for the relevant post.

Let's have a good long discussion about this issue, Ken. I suspect that as time goes by, we'll evolve into a more European-style model because we'll have more and more aging baby boomers to take care of.

But which European country do we want to evolve toward, if we inevitably must go there?

For my part, I plan to take care of my own doggone self as long as I can. If I'm lucky, I'll be like my mom and dad who, at age 88, both still enjoy volunteer work.

One thing remains clear to me: We, as a people, and individually, must learn to live within our means. Otherwise, no socioeconomic system will work for us, now or ever.

larry kurtz

Depends which country on the European continent. Maybe the US should be more like Australia:




Why must we shift to European Socialism? There is no need....it would be taking steps backwards to do so, not forwards.


In my experience....those who advocate a deeper shift to a European Style Socialism more than we have already sacraficed, have never been there long enough to experience why it is such a horrible idea. They also seem to have trouble understanding the fundamental idea of scale.

Do they not ask themselves why creating the European Union seemed to put the system at risk instead of strengthening it? It is one thing to have small country's with strict economic, labor, and immigration rules and point to them and say "Wow...looks like they are doing pretty good," and maybe they are, but looks can be deceiving. They may look good on paper, but that doesn't really mean it is the reality. Most of the Europeans do not know any other way.

But it is another thing to shift a country the size of the U.S. with all of it's diversity and freedoms and expect better results while maintaining the standard of living we enjoy in the U.S.

I submit that if that is the end game goal, to shift the U.S. to a more pure socialist system....Freedom, Individualism, and the standard of living will all have to be sacraficed to do so, and to be quite frank, once Americans get a taste of it, they will roundly reject it.

Stan Gibilisco


Actually I don't want to shift towards the European way. I do think we have to keep in mind that forces in our society are propelling us in that direction, sort of like a rip current in the ocean. I do agree that once Americans get a taste of that stuff, they'll spit it out. Unfortunately, we may have to sustain some real damage in order to learn the applicable lessons -- real and, perhaps, irreversible damage.

On one score I'm pure socialist: medical care. I wrestle with that conflict from time to time ... pretty soon I'll be on Medicare anyhow. (Yes, it will continue to exist, at least for people over 55 today. I can't think of a better way to start a civil war than to take existing Medicare away from old people.)


Stan, no one is talking about taking Medicare away from those of us over 65. However, the soundbite of the Reps pushing granny off the cliff is the only thing that Dems talk about if SS reform is mentioned. They fail to mention that if nothing is done, many of us over 65 will lose some Medicare. They also fail to mention that Obamacare will result in less doctors, cuts to Medicare funding, less doctors willing to see Medicare patients, and therefore loss of service to those of us over 65.

If it does happen that Obama is given another term and he really lets loose to "fundamentally change America" even more so than he has thus far, we may lose enough of our freedoms that we can't get them back. This is my worry. We will then be like Europe, and when people wake up and wonder what happened, it will be too late to undo the damage. That is why this election is so crucial and that the GOP choose a candidate who will truly honor his promises and undo the damage that O and his cohorts have foisted on us. I am not advocating any particular candidate here; I just want one who means what he promises.

Mark Anderson

I would imagine that the GDP would be much closer if we keep the ultra-rich like Romney out of the loop. We work about 300 more hours per year. Europeans get much more vacation, it's comparing apples and oranges. If what we do is so great in comparison, why don't the Europeans want our "freedom". There are many things we could look at that Europe does rather than the simple anti-europe bull that is slung by Republican presidential candidates. They pretty much lie about everything Obama wants. To say that Obama is a socialist is actually pretty funny when you really look at it.

Clive Holland

As someone who has studied Information and Resource Management I can assure anyone that any kind of stats based on unemployment, gdp or crime for that matter are basically a fabrication. Fundamentally we are asked the right questions to profile the right answers. If the result doesn't fit it will be made to. For a fact, having visited Norway, Denmark and Germany the first two are visibly poorer than Germany. I would also question how the US can generate more wealth than Europe as you (and ubfortunately here in the UK) have ravaged your manufacturing industry. Not so with Germany. They still follow common sense economic principles and are a European powerhouse of creativity. I wish to God the British would stop trying to copy the US and realise that American principles of economics have been making both our Nation's poorer for the last thirty years.

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