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Tuesday, November 01, 2011

Comments

larry kurtz

You are the master, Ken. Read: snowball's chance in Hell.

Mike Cooper

At least we now know Cain is a serious contender, and that the Democrats are fearful of running against him.

Dave

Oh the HUMANITY! Won't somebody please think about the CHILDREN!

KB

Larry: Do you have any spare drugs? There are days we could all use some of whatever you are on.

Dave: you would be singing a different tune (equally off key, no doubt) if this were about Obama.

Stan Gibilisco

If Cain were a Democrat, the race cards would be flying like leaves in a Halloween gale.

Donald Pay

Not only wasn't this irresponsible journalism, it was excellent journalism. These are not anonymous accusers. Their identities are known to the journalists. The fact that there are a half dozen people corroborating the story is far more than any journalist needs to go to print.

The lede indicates that "multiple sources" confirmed that two females were harassed by Cain. The "at least" implies that the multiple sources may disagree about the total number of females harassed by Cain or may be confused about the identities of those who were harassed, leading to a bit of confusion about whether more than two were harassed. The reporters asked Cain for clarifications, and he didn't provide any. The fact is Cain was asked for comment and could have told the reporters how many allegations there were without breaching any confidentiality agreement. That one is on Cain.

Journalists regularly report on allegations of wrongdoing. Are you saying we don't need to hear about alleged problems with the ATF Mexican gun tracking operation because we don't have every fact down pat? Nonsense.

duggersd

KB, you really do not want to have Larry's drugs. Do you REALLY want to see the world that way?

larry kurtz

You're right, Ken, my first post was off the mark. How about: an Oreo's chance in Hell.

larry kurtz

Fact is, Barnes: I called this Cain story back in August. http://interested-party.blogspot.com/2011/08/earth-haters-debate.html

duggersd

Not that I normally respond to you or read your blog, but you called it that Cain had an affair. This does not appear to be the case in the story. Some people are making accusations about some things he may or may not have said or done, but nobody in the story is claiming he had an affair. This would be wishful thinking on your part, and also irresponsible reporting on your part. Now I can go back to ignoring you and your blog.

larry kurtz

Watch and learn, Barnes. I am a man who has slept with more women than all the rest of the contributors on Ken's blog combined and can spot a cheater like a buzzard spots a corpse.

Donald Pay

Given the campaign donation scandals starting to surround Cain, you have to wonder whether the sexual harassment story might not be a good thing for him at this point. Sex trumps money in the media. If they weren't looking for these two women, they might be asking why people associated with a Koch front group who are now running Cain's campaign may have been involved in illegal campaign activities.

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/state-firms-cash-to-herman-cain-may-breach-federal-campaign-tax-laws-132898423.html

larry kurtz

Gingrich could be the beneficiary of Cain's pending implosion: http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/pollster-potential-cain-downfall-could-helpnewt.php

Ken Blanchard

Donald: The CBS story on the gunrunner scandal that I referenced earlier relies on anonymous testimony. It also produces named witnesses and a list of very specific facts. CBS tells us exactly what the ATF was doing. It gives us the caliber of the weapons. It names persons involved and a very important victim. It identifies specific documents.

The Politico story, by contrast, was built entirely on anonymous witnesses and rumor and never produces anything else. All it manages to establish is a set of allegations so vague as to be meaningless. Nothing in the story would enable another reporter to check it out. Calling this excellent journalism is idiotic.

Stan Gibilisco

Last night (Tuesday) on The O'Reilly Factor, Herman Cain got the "no-spin-zone treatment." His responses in regards to this issue seemed fairly good to me. However, his responses to Bill's questions concerning foreign policy made it clear: Herman Cain does not have what it takes to serve as the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States. Commerce secretary, maybe. President, no way.

Ken Blanchard

Stan: I have enjoyed your posts of late, a lot! I want to make one thing very clear. I am not defending Herman Cain here. Larry Kurtz may be challenged by distinctions, but you and I are not. I have said many times that I do not think Cain will be the nominee and that I do not think he is ready for prime time. I only argue that the Politico piece was very bad journalism, as even Donald would be able to see if it had come at the expense of someone or something he favors.

Bill Fleming

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20128570-503544/is-herman-cain-taking-scandal-from-bad-to-worse/

KB. Don't bet the farm on your position here, my friend. I'm just sayin'.

Ken Blanchard

Bill: are you tripping with Kurtz? I acknowledged that Cain was not handling the story well. My post was not about Cain, it was about irresponsible journalism. If you traffic in rumors and innuendo, that's journalistic malpractice regardless of what the facts turn out to be.

Bill Fleming

Nope, not tripping, KB. At least not artificially. ;^)
So far, the Politico story seems to be panning out pretty much as they outlined it, don't you think?

Bill Fleming

Reporters have to be careful to use words like "alleged" and "apparently," and "according to a source"etc. when they release a story. That's the craft. There is nothing irresponsible about it. It would be irresponsible if they didn't use those words. Ask a real journalist.

Bill Fleming

I think the more interesting angle here is finding out who gave Politico the original tip. There is some speculation that it came from the Karl Rove group or the Romney camp. Cain sounds like he'd like to blame it on the Democrats (big surprise.) I wonder if we'll ever find that out?

Mike Cooper

The publicity is good for Cain. Republicans will rally around him, whether Romney or the Democrats are responsible. While some will look a bit askance at this, when faced with a choice between Obama and Cain, Cain will win hands down. Thanks to Bill Clinton, our country is pretty much inured to this sort of thing. The ones who claim to be bothered were going to vote for Obama/Romney anyway. I am not yet ready to say Cain will get the nomination. but this makes it more likely, not less.

duggersd

Polling is interesting, but mostly just a snapshot. I have been hearing that in head-to-head with Obama, Cain has been rising rather quickly, especially with Democrats. It seems Democrats consider this type of story a resume enhancer.

tedp

An "Oreo" Mr. Kurtz? Really. When are liberal Democrats going to let black people off the plantation? The stereotype is insulting.

I'm new to the blog, and I must say that you liberal jackals nipping at Ken's heels is quite amusing.

larry kurtz

You're a dweeb, Barnes. Thomas Jefferson routinely raped his slaves and fathered at least one child as a result. Subsequent US presidents held mistresses as a matter of course.

tedp: you are barking up the wrong tree. Ken is a tool of the South Dakota Republican Party whose heels are soiled with 122 years of violent racism.

duggersd

tedp, you are best off ignoring the person who I do not normally respond to. He is often off topic and makes one wonder what kind of damage has happened to his brain.
BTW, I just read another accomplishment of President Obama. In the past year, the number of food stamp recipients has increased by 8% to about 46,000,000 Americans.

larry kurtz

to whom I normally not respond, Barnes; you poor sot. Hey, food stamps are part of the farm bill; end farm subsidies and put the program into HHS.

tedp

Ah yes, duggersd, I visited his web site and see what you mean. Seething ignorance and hate...

larry kurtz

Bismarck is hardly a bastion of enlightenment, Ted.

ISP Midcontinent Communications
Location
Continent : North America
Country : United States (Facts)
State : North Dakota
City : Bismarck

larry kurtz

IP Address 24.220.245.# (Midcontinent Communications)

Let me guess: Jack Dalrymple's lover?

larry kurtz

you didn't vote on my poll, Ted; go back and vote.

larry kurtz

Bill, I thought the same thing about your insight into one of the other earth haters turning on Cain. Here's a little ammo for your premise:

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/gop-consultant-i-saw-herman-cain-harass-women.php

Bill Fleming

Mmm hmmm. So Perry maybe? Meanwhile the guy goes on Fox News and doesn't seem to know that China has had nukes for 50 years. I don't know. Maybe he should go back to the food biz.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20128920-503544/herman-cain-incorrectly-suggests-china-doesnt-have-nuclear-capability/

MikeH

I think her name is Anita Hill.

Donald Pay

It's looking more and more that KB just dittoed the right wing line on the media, rather than doing the hard journalistic work of the reporters breaking this story. The sort of reflexive anti-journalism of KB is far, far more dangerous for our society, than proper journalistic vetting of multiple sources.

Bill Fleming

It's not the first time we've seen KB try to polish a turd, Donald. I'm just sayin'.

KB

Okay, Bill. If Fox publishes a story about a scandal involving Obama and the story contains NOTHING but anonymous sources, unspecified documents, and hearsay evidence, you will have to admit that its good journalism. Of course you won't. You'll cry like a baby. I will say the same thing about such a story that I say about this.

Bill Fleming

I always love when other people tell me with such certainty how I will think,
and what I will do on some hypothetical future issue... also how some people
consider Fox to be an actual news organization.

Anthony Renli

The problem the Cain campaign faces with the article has less to do with the article itself, but the amateur hour way he dealt with it. First he denied it, then said he didn’t recall, then said well, he recalled, but didn’t think they paid off a person, then said well maybe there was a cash settlement but… His camp has blamed Obama, Perry, and Romney at various points about the leak – and walked them all back. If this is how they deal with what should have been a minor hiccough in the news cycle, how would he deal with actually campaigning against Obama or actually being president?

Will this kill his campaign, no, but it has already weakened it. Combine this with the campaign finance problems that have been ignored because of the much sexier harassment claims it is probably good he imploded early.

(for his campaign finance problems see the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/state-firms-cash-to-herman-cain-may-breach-federal-campaign-tax-laws-132898423.html )

Bill Fleming

Okay, KB, here's your Fox "News" report. Still pretty vague on some things. Better bust their chops, brother.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/03/cain-accusers-both-work-in-government-related-jobs/

Ken Blanchard

Bill: I love it when someone objects to something I say about them and then immediately confirms it.

The Fox article you cite provides plenty of details, including actual people's names. It tells us more about the unnamed alleged accusers than Politico did, including where one of them works. It doesn't advance the story very much, but it doesn't pretend to do otherwise.

Anthony: I agree completely. The Cain campaign's response was amateurish, and that includes their accusations against the Perry campaign. Since Cain's greatest asset was his "plain talking", I think this has damaged him.

Donald Pay

See, KB has never been in the journalism biz, and apparently doesn't know the difference between breaking a story, and follow up reporting on a story. It's so nice to be blissfully ignorant, but it doesn't make you right, KB.

Ken Blanchard

Donald: at least I know what a STORY is, something of which you are apparently ignorant, blissfully or otherwise.

You are wrong to say that I have never been in the journalism biz. I have a regular column in the Aberdeen American News. A modest venue, I will grant, but a real newspaper nonetheless. I know what it is like to deal with responsible editors. I know for a fact that they would not have published anything I wrote that was as empty and vague and full of innuendo as the Politico piece.

Bill Fleming

KB, the real reporters will be quick to tell you that there is "news" and "editorial" in a newspaper, and never the twain shall meet. Your columns in a newspaper are no more news reporting than my ads are. In fact, sometimes my ads have more actual news in them.

Ken Blanchard

Bill: you are altogether wrong. To be sure, there are differences between editorials and reporting, but that doesn't mean that columnists can say anything they damn well please. I have to support factual claims made in my column, at least to my editor's satisfaction. On a couple of occasions I made errors that necessitated retractions. On other occasions, a column was delayed until I convinced my editors that my claims were supported.

If I accused President Obama or you of something in one of my essays, but didn't say exactly what it was and based my accusation on anonymous witnesses and hearsay evidence, that column would not appear as scheduled. That is how responsible journalism works.

Bill Fleming

Okay, now we might be getting somewhere. Do you have to support your claims in the text of your column? Or just to your editor's satisfaction? i.e. is there a backstory?

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