E. J. Dionne: Left Wing Archie Bunker

I continue to be astonished at how much the American Left today looks like a parody of conservatives. By the latter, I have in mind especially Archie Bunker. Consider this bit from E. J. Dionne. Speaking about the Republican insistence that spending be cut further before the debt ceiling is raised, Dionne goes on:

This is, well, crazy. It makes sense only if politicians believe -- or have convinced themselves -- that they are fighting over matters of principle so profound that any means to defeat their opponents is defensible.

We are closer to that point than we think, and our friends in the tea party have offered a helpful clue by naming their movement in honor of the 1773 revolt against tea taxes on that momentous night in Boston Harbor.

Whether they intend it or not, their name suggests they believe that the current elected government in Washington is as illegitimate as was a distant, unelected monarchy. It implies something fundamentally wrong with taxes themselves or, at the least, that current levels of taxation (the lowest in decades) are dangerously oppressive. And it hints that methods outside the normal political channels are justified in confronting such oppression.

That last paragraph is stupid and dishonest, though it is not easy to tell the two apart. Calling a protest movement "the Tea Party" implies the very opposite of what Dionne says. The protestors who three boxes of tea into Boston harbor in 1773 did not regard the British government as illegitimate. They thought of themselves a good Englishmen. They regarded the tea tax as illegitimate and engaged in a little political theater to illustrate their point. Okay, there was some property damage, but no one other than Earl Grey was hurt.

Nor did the original Tea Party think that taxes were illegitimate or that the levels of taxation where illegitimate. They thought that the method by which the taxes were passed was illegitimate. The contemporary Tea Party makes a rather more modest point: that the U.S. Government is on the road to fiscal insolvency; that business as usual will bankrupt the nation. Maybe they are right and maybe they are wrong, but they are hardly crazy for thinking so.

E. J. Dionne is a left wing Archie Bunker: pompous and laboring under self-imposed ignorance. He is terrified of change and wants to prevent it at all costs. He is incapable of thinking through his own positions. Most of all, he despises anyone and everyone who criticizes the status quo. The whole point of his argument is to delegitimize protest. It's the sixties all over again. Only the roles have been reversed.

Comments

[Bill Fleming]

"Nor did the original Tea Party think that taxes were illegitimate or that the levels of taxation where illegitimate. They thought that the method by which the taxes were passed was illegitimate."

Huh? I thought the protest was that the Colonists felt that they should only be taxed by their own elected representatives.

That sounds like they thought the tax was illegitimate to me, KB.

The original Tea Partiers were unwilling to concede authority to a legislature in which they had no direct representation.

Wasn't the slogan "Taxation with our representation is tyranny?"

Are you trying to rewrite history here in order to somehow legitimize today's Tea-peeps by claiming the early American revolutionaries were somehow just a goofy ol' bunch of disgruntled loyalists, KB?

Next thing you know you'll be trying to tell us that Paul Revere rode through town shooting guns and ringing bells to warn the British that the Blue Coats were coming! One horse if by land, two if by snowmobile. LOL.

[Ken Blanchard]

Bill: If exactly the same tax (amount and object) had been passed by their own legislatures, then it would have been legitimate in their eyes. That is all I meant by "the method by which the tax was passed was illegitimate. The colonists did not originally object to taxes not passed by their legislatures, so long as they were "external" taxes on commerce.

The original tea party protesters were a bunch of disgruntled loyalists, at least in 1773. That much is unchallenged history.

[Bill Fleming]

Well, technically, yes. What else COULD they be, KB? That's kid of like saying Gandhi was just a grumpy old loyalist British subject, or that Hitler was just a misguided Catholic Kid, isn't it?

i.e. it may be atomistically historically factual but not really contextually complete and historically accurate, to the degree that the tea partiers, just a few years later, committed what the British would call treason by signing the DOE.

Certainly the Tea Party should be considered one of the first acts of defiance, no?

Here is a list of Tea Party participants, KB. Since you are an historian and I am not, can you point out for us which of these men were later recognized Tories and which were not? How many of them went back to Britain or otherwise left the colonies after the war?

http://www.boston-tea-party.org/participants/participants.html

[larry kurtz]

You are doing your side a great service by focusing on the under-represented, Ken. Think native americans and their lack of representation: http://www.kcrw.com/news/programs/tp/tp110627will_new_voter_id_la

South Dakota=Jim Crow.

[Ken Blanchard]

Bill: I am not a historian, but neither am I clueless about history. At any rate, Dionne is trying to delegitimize protest. You guys on the left used to admire protest. You used to think it was as American as apple pie. Suddenly its treason.

[Bill Fleming]

I do admire protest, Ken. But I'm not very impressed by astroturf "grassroots" movements funded by Karl Rove's corporate goon squad and the Koch machine who cynically manipulate and inflame my fellow Americans in order to advance their corporate interests under the guise of "united we stand." Are you? Really?

And I think the whole effort to discredit and delegitimize Obama even to the point of risking the good faith and credit of the nation has been an outrage. Many in the GOP seem to actually want our country to fail in order to advance their parties political agenda. And yeah, some might say that attitude borders on treason. Can you defend it?

[Bill Fleming]

I do like Ron Pauls idea here, for example. Do you think congress will have the good sense to go along with him on it? It would instantly wipe out $1.6 trillion in US debt?

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/4h96id/www.tnr.com/article/politics/91224/ron-paul-debt-ceiling-federal-reserve

It do you think Obama will be forced to simply invoke the 14th Amendment making the whole GOP scare tactic moot point?

My point is, I don't think the GOP is acting responsibly by drying to divide us with all the fear mongering these days. I think when the nation is in crisis we have an obligation to come together and work things out, not divide ourselves up into conflicting camps. I'm hearing stuff like threats of secession, 2nd Amendment remedies, etc. etc.

You tell me, KB what's more essential behavior for a Congressional member.

Keeping a pledge to Grover Norquist and the big corporate lobbyists?

Or keeping the oath to defend and uphold the US Constitution?

[Bill Fleming]

There is also perhaps a good discussion to be had tangent to this topic about the appropriation and the evolution of memes, KB. In many ways, I think it might explain what is really going on here. Cultural memes, like their biological cousins (genes) are amoral. They don't think. They aren't irresponsible or bad, they just are. And are subject to manipulation by agents skilled in their mechanics. We as a society are sadly underprepared for such discussion, partly du to a lack, not of information, but rather, education. But that doesn't mean that those of us who are at least marginally educated shouldn't at least be discussing it. It might yield some good insights, even for us (ahem) "populists."

[Bill Fleming]

A little discussion of the Tea Party meme.

Originally it was:

"Taxation without representation is tyranny."

Due to data compression (and a little help from Grover Norquist — master meme splicer) the qualifier ("without representation") has been lost in the modern iteration, resulting in the following memetic mutation:

"Taxation is tyranny."

Good compression, bad information.

Pass the Earl Grey, please.

[KB]

bill: right wing archie bunker thinks all the anti-war protesters and environmentalists are really just communists. left wing archie thinks that all the tea party protesters who showed up in small meetings across the nation are really the Koch brothers. Congratulations bill: you have achieved bunkerism. I can recommend some cheap cigars.

What you admire bill is people saying what you want to hear. The U.S. is going belly up to the tune of a trillion and a half a year and the leader of the U.S. Senate is appalled that funds might be cut for the cowboy poetry festival. Yeah, its the Republicans who are the problem all right.

[KB]

bill: right wing archie bunker thinks all the anti-war protesters and environmentalists are really just communists. left wing archie thinks that all the tea party protesters who showed up in small meetings across the nation are really the Koch brothers. Congratulations bill: you have achieved bunkerism. I can recommend some cheap cigars.

What you admire bill is people saying what you want to hear. The U.S. is going belly up to the tune of a trillion and a half a year and the leader of the U.S. Senate is appalled that funds might be cut for the cowboy poetry festival. Yeah, its the Republicans who are the problem all right.

[Bill Fleming]

So, no rebuttal, then, Ken? Do you seriously deny Koch, and Rove, and Fox news involvement in popularizing the "taxation is tyranny" meme?

If so, KB I got your cigar right here, buddy.

It's one of the trick exploding kind.

First few puffs taste pretty good though! LOL.

[Bill Fleming]

p.s. the country is NOT going belly up, KB. That's just another BS scare tactic. The most horrifying thing is you guys believe your own lies, deep in your hearts. Thus in order to be "right" you will do everything you can to self-fulfill your own Doomsday prophesies. This is true across the board, from the economy, to social, to foreign policy. And you suck people into it like people gathering around a staged train wreck. Why? Because the idea that everything might turn out okay just doesn't sell as well.

[Ken Blanchard]

Bill: ANSWER.org organized the major anti-war rallies during the Bush years. For some reason the anti-war people lost interest after that. ANSWER is a pro-North Korean outfit, which is as bad news commie as you can get. So by your logic, the entire anti-war movement is disastroturfed. I find that logic atrocious. The anti-war movement was grassroots. Tens of thousands of Americans attended rallies of their own accord. Sure the New York Times and MSNBC and George Soros were all "involved" in publicizing the movement. For Conspiracy theorists that sort of thing looms large. I have no time for such thinking.

As for our lies about the economy: that's right. WE invented that trillion and a half deficit. We are actually running a surplus! Nice to have Flemming to bring us the rosy truth.

[larry kurtz]

Ken, even you must believe that martial law would be bad for the recovery. Do you seriously think a Democratic Senate will let that happen?

[Bill Fleming]

(...don't look now, but I think maybe KB just called me a meathead ;^)

[Donald Pay]

ANSWER had very little to do with anti-war demonstrations anywhere outside of a few large cities. They had no reach, for instance, into the 100,000 person march in Madison before the Iraq invasion. The anti-war left is very decentralized, and is organized at the local level. Any bus rides to large demonstrations in DC required the person fork over money for a fare. On the other hand, most of the organizing for the Tea Party in Wisconsin depended on Americans For Prosperity, where the Koch Bros. supplied the money for large media outreach and free buses. Sure, there were some grassroots Tea Party activists. They were nudged aside by the Koch Funded outfits.

[William]

BF,

As to your reference to "taxation is tyranny" meme, the first I've heard about it is from you. I know and Donald have convinced yourselves that somehow the folks that identify with the Tea Party Movement are somehow orchestrated by a central force such as the Koch Brothers or Americans for Prosperity, but I can assure you that those I know, self included, advocating smaller government, fiscal responsibility, individual freedoms and upholding a conservative view of the Constitution have been around long before the birth of the current Tea Party Movement.

[Ken Blanchard]

Donald: okay, so only the major national marches were organized by pro-North Korean commies. Doesn't everyone feel better? You guys are very fond of your conspiracy theories, so I won't interfere. I still think that the anti-war movement and the Tea Party movement were and are Americans being Americans. Arguing that one side or the other is illegitimate is a sign that you can't handle dissent.

[Donald Pay]

No, ANSWER participated to some extent in marches. They may have contributed some to organizing in large cities, but they are so far out there that they can never generate large numbers of people at any demonstration. ANSWER is like the Tea Party, a small group of extremists who it is probably prudent to ignore.

[William]

OK, here's a list of last Fall's One Nation Working Together rally sponsors. That "Peoples Movement" that bussed in a few thousand organized (and PAID) "ralliers" who trashed the Mall.
http://biggovernment.com/taylorking/2010/09/27/astroturf-thousands-given-free-bus-rides-by-unions-naacp-to-one-nation-rally/

Well funded and organized, and openly supporting their "social justice anti-capitalist" position, they are the true example of an "Astro-Turfed movement.

http://sadhillnews.com/2010/10/03/one-nation-working-together-rally-list-of-sponsors

A BRIEF excerpt:
ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism) Coalition
AFGE: American Federation of Government Employees
Communist Party USA hosted/endorsed by Obama for America (aka Organizing for America)
Democratic Socialists of America
UAW, International Union
Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights
SEIU: Service Employees International Union
Rainbow PUSH Coalition
PowerPAC
National Council of La Raza

[Jimi]

Donald,

"organized at the local level."

This comment is not even close to reality!

[Jimi]

Bill,

"the country is NOT going belly up"

Are you claiming that the current economic data is not accurate? Is there something that you know that every other analysist out there doesn't know?

[Bill Fleming]

No, Jimi, I don't know anything those other analyst don't. But I do know how to read what they right. Our country has a cash flow crisis. An imbalance on the "P&L" if you will. But our balance sheet (i.e. net worth) is just fine. Problem is, nobody ever discusses the assets. If all you did on your balance sheet was list your debt and not your assets, you'd look broke too.

[Jimi]

Bill,

What assets are you refering to? We will very shortly be unable to service our debt. We do not manufacture enough to fix the trade deficit, and interest rates are being falsely held low.

Our economy is currently based on how much we can borrow, but unless a plan is developed to offer confidence in the value of the dollar, that ability to borrow will be severely diminished. Our main asset is the ability to offer stability to financial investment....remember Clinton's strategy of a "Service Based Economy," and that stability is not only being questioned around the world, plans are being put in place to not rely on it anymore. So I don't understand exactly what you are refering to.

[larry kurtz]

the president can do whatever the hell he needs to do to pay the bills: http://www.kcrw.com/news/programs/tp/tp110706political_brinksmans

political theatre, nothing more.

[Billl Fleming]

'As to your reference to "taxation is tyranny" meme, the first I've heard about it is from you.' Surely you jest, William. You've not heard of Grover Norquist's pledge? You've not been following the debt ceiling debates? Come on, buddy.

[Billl Fleming]

'As to your reference to "taxation is tyranny" meme, the first I've heard about it is from you.' Surely you jest, William. You've not heard of Grover Norquist's pledge? You've not been following the debt ceiling debates? Come on, buddy.

[Billl Fleming]

'So I don't understand exactly what you are refering to.' Exactly. My point exactly. You have no idea what your nation's net worth is. if you did, you wouldn't be defending the doom and gloom 'America's going belly up' myth, because it's preposterous, Jimi.

[Bill Fleming]

Jimi, what if I told you that the total assets of the US were somewhere between $185 and $400 trillion, depending on how you look at it. Now compare that to the nations total debt and you'll see what I'm talking about. Wes, we need to manage cash flow and make adjustments based on income and expense projections. But there's no way were "broke."

[Ken Blanchard]

Ah, at last a light pierces the darkness! We have between $200 and $400 trillion in assets, "depending on how you look at it." Can one imagine a real set of books that has that kind of specificity? By that account I make between fifty grand and and a hundred grand a year!

I gather, then, that your solution to the current fiscal crisis is to sell Alaska. I can see the fine print on the ad: "If you act now, we'll throw in all the Amish and Hutterites!"

My friend: I love you and I salute you. But your education seems to have some holes in it. Have you never heard of all those Lords in their very valuable houses on very valuable land who had to sell the paintings and the contents of the wine cellar to pay back taxes and still couldn't afford firewood for their over sized fireplace? Have you not seen the climax of Gone With the Wind? Scarlet, still owning a very valuable plantation, pulls a carrot out of the ground, eats it, and throws up.

The current fiscal crisis is a cash flow problem, not an asset problem. Unless you really intend to sell Alaska, or maybe San Francisco, (and to who?) the value of assets we cannot liquidate is irrelevant. No one thinks that these amber waves of grain are going to evaporate. That won't save the faith and credit of the United States if we can't pay the interest on our debt.

[Bill Fleming]

The assets drive the economy, KB. If you have better number, you should publish it. Mine is fuzzy because you have to include private assets as well as public if you're going to get a snapshot of the true American balance sheet in the aggregate. But we do seem to agree, it's a cash flow problem, not a negative net worth problem, and that's really all I'm saying.