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Sunday, April 24, 2011

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The Worden Report

You might be interested in the Archbishop of Canterbury's Easter sermon on greed and excessive profit-seeking. See ... http://bit.ly/f6Td5w
Is generosity enough to forestall or make up for greed, or do we need to go back to the camel and the eye of the needle?

Mike

Christ is Risen!

Donald Pay

I have no problem with faith in general or any of the variants of Christian faith in particular. If people want to believe in the physical resurrection, as opposed to a spiritual resurrection of Jesus, that's their right. I, however, find the idea of physical resurrection a bit of a stretch. The Gospels certainly don't agree on the details of this supposed most important incident of Christianity, and if this is really the Word of God, you would think God would have gotten his story straight. I'm more inclined to believe that the empty tomb (this actually might have happened) had a more interesting and all-too-human a reason. At any rate, the Easter Bunny came to the Pay household, and I've got a pile of chocolate eggs to eat. It's a miracle!!!!

larry kurtz

hey zeus! what do you call easter in indian country? a rez-erection.

Ken Blanchard

Donald: I was interpreting the Gospel; I take no stand on whether or how it might be true. Whether the idea of a physical resurrection is a stretch or not depends on the truth of the larger premise: a Creator God who brought the cosmos into being as an act of will. If that premise is correct, a physical resurrection is more than plausible.

I don't think the various Gospel's are in much disagreement on the details. All of them confirm the resurrection of Christ's body, and the physicality of Jesus is identified as non-negotiable in the later, non-Pauline letters. This is for good reason. The idea that resurrection is possible only in spirit is a pernicious doctrine.

You may be right about the empty tomb, as I indicated; however, that is little more than conjecture on your part. Your view of revelation is naive. Clearly neither the Gospels nor the letters are "dictated" by God. If the word of God is expressed in those documents it is expressed by all the information they provide. That includes the character of the writer and the circumstances in which he writes. If the Gospels occasionally contradict one another (they do), then that is part of the information with which they must be interpreted.

I hope you enjoyed your chocolate eggs. I got an Easter basket which included several plastic action figures of she-bunnies in Ninja poses. Happy Easter!

Miranda

A late Happy Easter, Dr. Blanchard!

You start by saying that Christianity's contribution is that God is both divine and knowable. But you end by saying that the "promise" is a scrotum and nostrils.

If that's all it is, we're just back to Zeus. So I would say that the promise is something more than that. Part of what makes Christianity so appealing is the promise of forgiveness, which I don't think you find in Jewish or Pagan literature. The Greek gods MIGHT forgive you if they feel like it, but they might also smite you or turn you into an unseemly creature. The Hebrew God is, I think, more consistently forgiving, but forgiveness in The Old Testament often seems to hinge on the right kind of sacrifice and it seems like the Israelites end up angering God as much as they please him. Christianity is different. Even if you mess up a lot (and I certainly do!) God is "faithful and just" to forgive sins. For me, that's where the promise is.

Bill Fleming

"Oh God." — Gandhi (The Movie)

(...after being fatally shot by a fellow Hindu for declaring that he was not just a Hindu, but also a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist and a Christian. I believe what he literally said was "Rama.")

Ken Blanchard

Miranda: The promise is physical resurrection. Not dust. Not a vaporous apparition, but new life. Only things that are alive have scrotums and nostrils. I don't disagree with anything you say about forgiveness.

larry kurtz

the plural is scrota, perfessor.

KB

Larry: thanks.

Bill Fleming

There are dead things that have scrota and nostrils too, KB. I like this quote. "Just to be is a gift. Just to live is holy*."
I'm with Miranda. If you get all hung up with body parts, you're probably barking up the wrong tree, grasshoppah.

————————————————

*Abraham Joshua Heschel — Rabbi

Ken Blanchard

Bill: No, except in the sense that statues have nostrils. Christianity promises the resurrection of the body. As for barking up the wrong tree, try barking without lungs or a throat. Human life apart from human bodies is like human beings with angel wings: nice on cards, but incoherent in substance.

Billl Fleming

Fascinating that you present yourself as someone who knows what life is, professor. Maybe you should write a paper on it and inform your colleagues in the life sciences. They appear not yet to know.

Billl Fleming

Suffice it for now, KB to say that life is a process, not a finality, and that the bits and pieces that comprise your nostrils and your scrotum have been involved in countless other nostril and scrotum constructions that have come before (pun intended) and will come hereafter. Isn't that mysterious and miraculous enough for you, dood?

Miranda

Dr. Blanchard: I think what you highlight is part of the promise, but not all of it. Resurrection by itself could be quite awful. Suppose you're brought back to life only to be tortured forever. I think that when you strip certain aspects (such as love and forgiveness) from the message of Christianity, you end up with a promise that is...well...not so promising.

Ken Blanchard

Bill, dood, I am not in the market for miracles and mysteries. I want to understand what things are. Yes, life is a process and not bits and pieces. The promise of the resurrection of the body is that the process will recommence after death. That is no small promise.

Ken Blanchard

Miranda: my purpose was to emphasize the physicality of the promise in the gospels. I did not intend to spell out all the implications of that promise. It seems to be part of the promise that, just as death is overcome, so will all the other consequences of sin. That includes, I think, all kinds of pain and misfortune.

Miranda

That seems fair!

Bill Fleming

Still missing the point, KB, but I won't press it, except to say that there is what it is, and then there is what you would like to think it is. It has ever been thus. Whatever helps you sleep, brother. Amen.

KB

If you indeed HAVE a point Bill, you have failed to express it.

Bill Fleming

The point is that you don't have to have "faith" to have personal involvement with the universe. Nor is it a prerequisite for "eternal life." You are already in it. You can't not be in it. Like the Eveready Bunny (an Easter Bunny cousin?) you just keep going, and going, and going. All scientific evidence points to the veracity of that claim, and virtually none to the contrary.

Billl Fleming

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_information_paradox

...background for above assertion.

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