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Saturday, March 12, 2011

Comments

larry kurtz

You sound like you're saying humans are god's chosen species, Ken. Seems like speciesism gone rogue. How many birds were killed in the Japan event? Probably not many.

Find me a particle, then we'll talk: http://www.physorg.com/news193551675.html

Bill Fleming

Good overview, KB. Larry, I don't see where he's being species selective. He just hasn't carried to it's logical conclusion what we really mean what we say' 'body.' He was probably waiting for you to do that, mon.

Miranda

So in your estimation, can humans change something physical about themselves to make themselves more moral?

larry kurtz

I don't differentiate mind and body, Bill. Cell processes in a phosphate-based life form do not a mystery make.

Ken Blanchard

Miranda: Of course. If you write a paragraph it may be a good one or a bad one, but it isn't a paragraph at all unless you write it down. Wriiting isn't writing unless it physically changes some medium; the same is true for thinking.

On a deeper level: could you make a person better by altering the brain through surgery or chemistry? We know very well that you can make a person worse in this way. The example of Phineas Gage and more recent cases show that injury to certain areas in the brain can have profoundly unfortunate consequences for moral emotions and character. Logically, I suppose, if you could reverse the damage you might make those people morally better. I think it would be more accurate to say that you would restore a capacity for moral behavior that was taken away from them by the injuries. Much the same is true of severely emotionally damage patients who respond to medication.

If you're worried about a morality pill, I wouldn't be. Trying to make people better by acting directly on the brain (except in pathological cases) would be like trying to change the information in a computer by switching out the hard drive rather than simply downloading a file.

Ken Blanchard

Larry: my whole point was against mind/body dualism. Sorry if the photons sailed over your head.

Anyone who says that "Cell processes in a phosphate-based life form do not a mystery make" has no flippin' idea what he is talking about. There are a multitude of mysteries here. I just don't that substance dualism helps unravel any of them.

larry kurtz

Sorry, that it has taken you 70 years to get there, Ken.

larry kurtz

Catholicism is not your friend.

Miranda

I am not worried about a morality pill. But what I am curious about is whether or not we can blame our moral choices on our physical makeup. I remember your references to Gage in class - but did the damage actually affect his morality or did it just affect his ability to act according to his principles? Or, rather, did it affect his moral reasoning or did it only affect his desire to be moral?

larry kurtz

Genetics, genetics, genetics: "Each kind of animal is furthermore guided through its life cycle by unique and often elaborate sets of instinctual algorithms, many of which are beginning to yield to genetic and neurobiological analyses. With all these examples before us, we may reasonably conclude that human behavior originated the same way." -Edward O. Wilson via the Atlantic. http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-genetics-of.html

Mind is an organic process only.

larry kurtz

Do we know it all? Not yet: Here's a film for your Netflix queue, Ms. Flint.
http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9C01E7DD1030F936A35752C1A961958260

Miranda

Mr. Kurtz: Added! But Doctor Who comes first!

Ken Blanchard

The damage to Mr. Gage's brain certainly damaged his ability to act morally. Patients studied more recently show a dysfunctional lack of certain moral emotions. Moral principles, like moral logic, are effective only in so far as they shape and guide moral emotions. Moral emotions do seem to be centered in certain parts of the brain.

The question of blame and praise is likely to become very thorny in the near future. Already some neuroscientists are challenging the very concept of responsibility. I think this is unlikely to change much. Some persons are clearly so mentally dysfunctional that they cannot be held responsible for their behavior. That has long been recognized. Neuroscience will allow us to fine tune the standards. Of course, any legitimate defense can be misused.

Miranda

That makes sense. So how about the other way around. If we decide that the soul and the body are inseparable, can someone become so morally damaged that their body stops functioning properly?

Ken Blanchard

Interesting question. Moral thought and action are higher levels of organic function. As such, they do not affect more basic functions like breathing and digestion. So in that sense, no, it doesn't work the other way around. However, one of the most amazing things about organisms is how often a gene or a strip of neurons or an organ does many things at the same time. In that sense, damage to the moral organs may do damage to the more basic functions of the body.

More germane, perhaps, is the fact that moral dysfunction almost always renders a person less fit to take care of himself. The same instincts that tell us to rescue a child in distress tell us to get out the building when its on fire.

larry kurtz

Fixing someone to be well enough to stand trial for a capital offense seems a bit Vonnegutian yet it is already being done. Here's the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competency_evaluation_(law)

Miranda

Interesting. Maybe that's why, so much of the time, it seems like those who kill others stop defending themselves.

Thanks for the link, Mr. Kurtz.

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