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Thursday, January 27, 2011


Stan Gibilisco

This President is just one more ideologue like all the others -- but, I fear, more cynical than ideologues before him.

I hope that we never have to find out how cynical this man really is. Alternatively, I hope that I someday learn that my present fear of him lacks justification.

I believe that President Obama wants to impose European style "social democracy" in the United States, however long it takes, and even if the majority of Americans don't want it.



"I believe that President Obama wants to impose European style "social democracy" in the United States, however long it takes, and even if the majority of Americans don't want it."

I beleive the same thing, but I think it a little more indepth than that. I believe that the goal is the basic Cloward-Piven Strategy...where Free-Market Capitalism is to be brought to it's knees by spending itself into the abyss, so that the economy can be scooped up with centralized Government power, and rebuilt with the tenants of a collectivist ideology. On a positive note....I don't think he is going to get what he wants for America....the sleeping giant has been awakened.


You need to be more specific than "European style social democracy." There's this idea that life in socialist europe is hell. It's really not. In many respects, the European middle class is doing better than their American counterparts. Despite the sovereign debt crisis (which goes to show that monetary policy can't be unified when budgetary policy is not), life for most Europeans seems quite decent. Education is affordable, fewer are in debt, and personal retirement accounts are behind where the should be but still better than the US. Crime is generally lower. Far lower in the most socialist countries like Sweden and Denmark. In Euro-zone countries, the problems with the Euro aren't affecting things people care about, like the price of eggs or unemployment. It was our system with overvalued homes and too much consumer debt that caused the global crisis, not Ireland's inability to make a budget or Greece's ridiculously luxurious public sector retirement benefits.

As for the idea that social democracy slowly kills off industry and thus crushes the economy, please. Look at Sweden. Their taxes are second highest in the world. Their industry should be collapsing, right? Yet, the US borrows from them. Their budget looks better than ours. Swedish industry is arguably doing better than American. They're 10 million people and produce Saab and Volvo in Swedish factories in pleasant small towns like Linköping. We're 308 million and produce GM, Ford, and--is Chrystler still around? Sony-Ericsson, IKEA, H&M are big parts of the economy too, even if all are off-shore in one capacity or another. Tech upstarts like Spotify show that an educated young people without crushing debt can take on bigger fish like Apple and do quite well.

Sweden certainly isn't perfect, but investing in people through education and governing with lower levels of corruption than nearly anyone else help. Sweden's social safety net might waste funds on crazy things like "pro family legislation" where they actually pay families to have children, but it does far more to produce a competitive economy than the funds we pump into our military.

Even the most 'socialist' of the European social democracies are not hell. Even if Obama was trying to make us like Sweden (I don't think he is), doing so would hardly be a nefarious plot maximize as much pain from our population as possible. We've got to stop referring to European Style socialism as this horrible monster we should avoid at all costs.

Stan Gibilisco

Jimi and Unicorn,

You both make good points. There's a lot to be said for the European way, especially Sweden. Nevertheless, I believe (although I cannot prove) that most Americans would rather not adopt that sort of system.

They have their way, and we have ours ... one can of course vote with one's feet. (I've sometimes thought about living in Europe, actually.)

My concern with President Obama is that he might be willing to drive the country to the brink of, and perhaps into, economic ruin in an attempt to fulfill his agenda.

Spook the public into accepting socialism as the "least bad way out" ... create a catastrophe and then "come to the rescue."

"Cynical" might better describe my own view of President Obama than his actual view of the world. I think that he's playing a dangerous game, and a lot of people will suffer if it doesn't work out as he hopes.


So if Obama's motives are what you say Stan and Jimi, then it would seem KB is right: Obama is clueless. How else to explain a 70% increase in the stock market, lower taxes and corporations amassing a record nearly $2 trillion in cash since he took office. What a dolt!


Sweden, in particular is a rather small, homogeneous society when compared to the US. It's very difficult to imagine that Sweden's system would simply "scale up" in a country such as the United States.



Much of the increase in the stock market may be explained by the economic stress worldwide, where despite our own economic problems the US is not perceived as quite the basket case many other nations are (yet). Corporate profits may also offer a deceiving view of the overall health of the economy, as many of our largest firms are profiting as much, or more, from a close relationship with the government (crony capitalism) than from fruitful industry.

As to the point made in the original post, I can only assume that since you appear to believe President Obama is NOT clueless, you must then believe him to be a liar.


IMO Obama is a liar. He is also probably the poorest prepared person to assume the presidency in this country's history. He had almost no legislative experience (he spent most of his time in the US Senate running for President). He had no executive experience leading any business. He was a community organizer with a gift for gab. And it really shows. I do believe he knows exactly what he is doing and what he wants to do. His most truthful statements were made off the cuff to Joe the Plumber and in his statement that he would "fundamentally change America."

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