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Monday, January 31, 2011

Comments

caheidelberger

Excellent analysis and alternative proposal, Dr. Blanchard! I feel no passionate warmth for this proposal, and I will happily take any reasonable excuse for sticking with the status quo or adopting a simpler, fairer counterplan. The states' rights problem (along with "kohler"'s persistent and widespread spam on the issue) make me suspicious. Your Unit Rule doesn't require a messy interstate compact.

Besides, a game is more fun when it has some tricky rules. Reverting to a straight popular vote and subverting all the twists and turns of the Electoral College (not to mention the possibility of the House and Senate electing when the Electoral College is split by Ralph Nader) makes the game much more interesting. NPV turns Risk into tic-tac-toe.

con4npv

"NPV turns Risk into tic-tac-toe."

I will argue the opposite (and, in doing so, carry your analogy to an absurd degree). By my lights, the present system is quite like tic-tac-toe, insofar as everyone candidate knows the right moves. No matter how good you are at the game, whoever gets the center square (i.e. the largest battleground state) wins.

Ken makes a valid point regarding the perception of the NPV legislation. Will South Dakotans FEEL disenfranchised if their votes count toward the candidate that did not win the majority in-state?

Possibly. But under the present system, South Dakota voters ARE disenfranchised, whether they feel it or not. South Dakota may have a disproportionate share of electoral votes, but its status as a "safe state" means that it has no voice in the election. The fact that South Dakotans tend to devote a large majority of votes to one candidate only exemplifies the problem.

Ken's counter-proposal is interesting, though it strikes me that it plays into the objections of both sides of the argument. South Dakota is still ignored, insofar as its results are essentially safe, but still allows for (almost guarantees, in fact) South Dakota voters to lose electors to a candidate they did not support.

duggersd

I like Prof Blanchard's proposal for small states such as SD. I also like the model used by NE. I believe NE works like this. The winner of the popular vote receives the two EC votes based upon the Senate. Then each Congressional district has their EC vote go according to how that district voted. In this format, even though Candidate A wins the state, but not one of the Congressional districts, those in that district will not feel so disenfranchised. Imagine how some people in Omaha must feel seeing their EC vote based upon their Congressional district go to the Republican because the Republican won the state. I believe they got it right.

Ken Blanchard

Thanks, Cory. I wish to emphasize that I like the Electoral College just fine the way it is. A majority of electoral votes looks as legitimate to me than a popular vote plurality such as Bill Clinton won twice--when more Americans voted against Clinton than voted for him. I just argue that there is a simpler way to solve the problems that the NPV addresses.

Ken Blanchard

con4npv: I don't really follow your reasoning. When a person or a state votes the same way on a regular basis, this hardly means that they are "disenfranchised". One is disenfranchised only if he doesn't get to cast his votes as he chooses. The NPV would guarantee that outcome. The unit rule allows SD's voters to decide how to cast all three of their votes the same way that they pick a Governor or a Senator. Contrary to what you say, SD is hardly ignored and for good reason. With our three electors, George W. wouldn't have won in 2000. We usually see the candidates swing by here several times.

If SD's electoral vote automatically went to the national pop. vote winner, there would be no reason to visit SD.

Ken Blanchard

Dugger: Nebraska's system is very similar to the one I suggest. I still prefer the unit rule, but if you really want to fix the problems that motivate the NPV then my system would work well in any state that saw fit to adopt it.

unicorn4711

I favor this legislation because it would likely increase voter turnout and participitory democracy in South Dakota. In most years, we know the 3 electoral votes will go to one candidate, the Republican. This means that many South Dakotans do not feel motivated to cast their vote, regardless of how they vote. When each vote will have an affect (though very small) on the total popular vote, I think we'll all be a little more likely to show up and make sure our voices are heard.

Cicak

By the way, there is a .Thanks, L-girl, for sending reedars my way.The goal of Fruits & Votes is to make political-science theory (well, and also fruit-growing techniques!) accessble to non-specialists. Of course, sometimes it is necessary to get into technical detail, but I try not to compromise the accessibility too much. And I always welcome comments and questions, in the spirit of propagating ideas and mutual learning!(Oh, and L-girl asks about the Dodgers-Padres. There is a post over at F&V on that. Baseball is off topic for F&V, but who cares: Baseball transcends just about everything!!)

Betty

I'm just catching on msylef. MSS's work is very detailed, and often too complex for me. I don't think it's necessary to understand it on that level - I'm sure most Canadians don't - but I still find it very interesting. I didn't really understand how the Parlimentary system worked until, shortly after we moved here, the Paul Martin government fell and an election was called, and then held. It was SO interesting for us! It was only then, seeing it in motion, that I "got it" .

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