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Friday, December 31, 2010

Comments

Donald Pay

You misunderstand Social Security. Social Security benefits also involve an insurance component for disability, and for spousal support. Your FICA tax also goes to these.

George Mason

The point KB is making is that all of these programs are unsustainable. You can tax the country into poverty and you will not be able to fund these programs without substantial reform.

Donald Pay

Notice we never hear about the stupid wars conservatives get us into as being "unsustainable."

These programs can be sustained with changes. There are multiple levers--taxes, benefits, operations, and a mixture of all three. Social Security has had many such changes throughout its history. Social Security was in much worse shape in the 1980s, and a combination of fixes helped.

Let's not forget that the surpluses in Social Security helped hide the fiscal impact of the Bush tax cuts. Back then borrowing from Social Security, as well as borrowing from China, made those tax cuts possible. It comes down to what and who you intend to use government to benefit. Conservative think the rich should benefit. Liberals think that working people should benefit.

KB

Donald always comes through for me. His comment falls squarely between the two relevant points. Viewed as insurance, it doesn't matter what government does with the 10% our couple gets back. They don't get it back, and that makes the return look very poor compared to private insurance and savings.

Viewed as a vehicle of income distribution, Social Security still looks bad. Social Security has been running a surplus for a very long time. That's money that wasn't redistributed among spouses or the disabled or disabled spouses. It was spent as part of the general treasury on whatever Congress was interested in. This was a con job. Precisely if you think that Social Security is a good program, you ought to be offended by this.

duggersd

No Donald. Conservatives believe we should look to ourselves. Liberals believe when someone makes more money than another person it is unfair and up to them to redistribute the wealth. That "surplus" in SS has been spent since the 1960's to help fund the Great Society. While I agree the "surplus" has helped hide the deficits of Bush, it also helped hide the deficits of Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon and Johnson. It also helped it appear Clinton was running at a surplus at the end of his term when the Congress forced changes in spending practices. Those changes in the tax rates from the Bush era have very little to do with increasing the deficit. In fact I would argue they actually helped lower the deficit. It was the spending that caused the problem.

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