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Tuesday, October 26, 2010

Comments

Stan Gibilisco

"Does he (the President) really have such a tin ear that he can't recognize what telling people to move to the back of the bus means in American political rhetoric?"

My guess is that he knows precisely what the expression means, and has full awareness of all its overtones -- underscoring the mandate that we, the people, vote him out in November 2012.

Donald Pay

I think you're stretching, as always. You distort context consistently in order to hype your "Republicans as picked on by the Presdent" meme. What a whiner!!!

President Obama's stump speech is always in reference to giving the Republicans the keys to the family car. That's a pretty charitable metaphor, by the way. The quote is used often at college rallies because it's something most college students have had some recent experience with. What you quoted even used the word "shotgun," which is in reference to an automobile. I've never seen a bus with a shotgun seat, but in the twisted minds of Republicans, I'm sure they will hallucinate one. So, another giant FAIL for you.

Indyfromaz

Well, if I have to sit at the back of the bus because my slavemaster and
oppressor demands it, then I am Rosa Parks and I demand my right to protest and
for freedom from my oppression.

D. Simmons

Check out the latest DWU Poll on SD attitudes toward Congress and the President:

http://www.dwu.edu/press/2010/oct26.htm

Phyllis Wilmont

My comment is for Donald Pay - it's so difficult for people like you to wake up and smell the coffee with your head planted so firmly up your a_ _!!!

KB

Donald: the voters will decide who drives the car, not the President. That is not a "stretch" as you put it. It is a simple matter of fact that the President seems to have forgotten.

In recent polls the President gets about 36% of the White vote. If he had been that weak in that Demographic in 2008, McCain would be President. Telling Republicans to sit in the back of the bus is not shrewd strategy, regardless of how the President meant the remark.

Donald Pay

Yeah, it's not too surprising you Republicans replay this racist meme over and over again. It stimulates your racist base. It's been in your racist playbook for years. It's pathetic.

Norm G

I would submit that the car is still in the ditch. I think that fact is what makes this arrogant statement so offensive. This smacks of trying to silence anyone who disagrees with his opinion. What happened to rational discussion where differing views can be voiced?

Jon S.

First, let me condemn the vulgar language of Phyllis as having no place in a civil discussion. Second, Donald does little better, eager to paint his opponents as racist monsters, thereby relieving himself of the necessity of taking them seriously. It appears Donald didn't read the post carefully. While stating the obvious, that saying Republicans should be relegated to "[sitting] in the back of the car" might remind people of the "back of the bus" metaphor, Ken explicitly rejects the racial angle. In fact he makes the same argument Donald makes, namely that this is consistent with the "car in the ditch" metaphor the president has been using. Only a tin ear, though, could miss the fact that his choice of words is open to the interpretation that some sizable number of citizens should just shut up and let someone else drive the car. This is not a helpful locution if one wants to win elections. But it is consistent with Obama's other statement this past week, that elections are about "punishing your enemies" and "rewarding your friends." Depicting those who disagree with you politically as "enemies" is demagoguery, not "post-partisan" or "change we can believe in." The president was sloppy in his language and it is reasonable to call him on it. I know there are Republicans who do the same. I encourage Donald to start his own blog and to point those out.

Donald Pay

KB went to great length to twist Obama's car into KB's bus for an obvious and ugly reason. I don't think I'm guilty of anything except pointing out the obvious. This is the sickest piece of opinion I have seen this year, and that's saying quite a lot. He even has the gall to talk about the "historical resonance" of his awful twisted racist slight of hand, as if Obama is using this imagery, not himself. I can't tell you how disgusted I am.

Donald Pay

Just googled "back of the bus" and "republican strategy." Ha!!! There's a pretty clear indication that KB's meme is one that's been pretty well planned out by the white right echo chamber. KB is just taking standard racist Republican strategy and putting his little twist on it. God, KB, I knew you plagairized, but isn't plagiarizing racist drivel about as low as you can go.

Laura

Regardless of anything racial, isn't the President of the United States supposed to be the President of ALL the people? This guy is unbelievable. He is consistently calling people out, insulting those who don't agree with him, telling Republicans (which happen to be a large number of our citizens) that they can move to the back, and on and on. This man is a DISGRACE to the office of the President. Never before have we had such a vile, divisive and arrogant person in this office. Remember in November and again in 2012!

J. Lampe

I believe it was very clear what Obama was implying. His base is made up of everyone who is not a white male. He won in 2008 by pandering to these people and he is trying to do it again. It is about as pathetic as Donald Pay.

Donald Pay

Shame on J. Lampe. His bigotry is there for all to see.

BurningBrule

A more apt analogy for the President is that the Democrats have been driving the car and it is directly headed for a cliff. Do you stop, and put the car in "R" and then change directions, or do you, a la Thelma and Louise (Herseth and Polis) grasp hands and continue in "D" and drive off the cliff?

Your choice.

Miranda Flint

Donald Pay: Suppose someone here had posted a message saying that Obama should sit in the back seat while Republicans got things done. Would it matter to you whether the seat was in a car or a bus?

Dan Walter

Obama.. one term president. He's a racist idiot.

Goerge Mason

I actually like Wagner. Obamas problem is that his arrogance has overcome any sense of moderation (or decency)that would help his party. The media (Donald's media) never calls him on his use of symbolism that is either racial or just insulting (Donald, as other liberals like him will turn everything into racism).
The American people have become (or overcome)with Obama and company's policy, arrogance and insults. Which is why most dem's are running away from Obama as fast as they can.

janet davis

I am a 59 year old white female,grew up in the 60's, vietnam, love and peace, neil armstrong walking on the moon,equal rights movement for blacks and women.I've always enjoyed lively political debate, get a great kick out of my lib friends. I now have the heartbreaking reality of hearing my president refer to me as the enemy, who needs to be on the back of the bus. what a travesty, may
god protect us from such a racist, divisive, evil and hateful individual a sbarak hussein obama

Donald Pay

As this blog shows, the "back of the bus" hallucination really cranks up the racists. Gotta hand it to KB. He knows his audience.

Bill Fleming

I think any professor who would submit a piece of such obvious inflammatory
sophistry as this post to a worldwide audience should have to sit in the trunk
with the lid closed. And then go to bed without supper when we get back home.

William

BF & Donald,

As one who grew up during the 60s, in an area where segregation was practiced, when told someone should "sit in the back" the connection to "back of the bus" is implicit. Whether through sheer tone deafness or not, the message that was sent was one of division. Considering Obama's background, it's actually unlikely that he personally remembers, or was the victim of the official segregation practiced during that time.

Donald Pay

Thank you, William. You have made my point. Your particular prejudices allow you to believe that when The Great White Liar twists a story, it has got to be the truth. Unlike you I'm not getting Obama's stump speech through the written slanders of the Great White Liar. I've actually heard Obama's stump speech four times. Never has he said "sit in the back of the bus." He has always referred to a car. You may not like the fact that he implies the corporate special interests and Republicans are unruly teenagers and should never get the keys to the car back, but I happen to think that's a pretty lenient penalty for your Wall Street gangster friends. I'd ground them for life.

William

Donald, you make my point. "Sitting in the back" (car/bus it makes no difference) brings back the MEMORIES of growing up in a segregated society. It's not a prejudice to realize the association and for one who fought AGAINST the segregation it's particularly painful to hear the President say something that it either purposely divisive OR is another example of his disconnect from the public at large. In either case, it's a disturbing choice of words.

Bill Fleming

Sitting in the back of a CAR is NOT an established cultural meme,
William and KB. You two are simply trying twist it into one.

Here, try this. Suppose I referred to you both as pandas.
Would that be the same as calling you 'coons?

No. Not even close.

Bill Fleming

Hmmm... upon reflection, I just remembered that the back seat
of a car IS INDEED a cultural meme. Especially Pink Cadillacs.
Sorry. It's been a long time.

Now, if THAT's what Obama was getting at... well... good for him.

William

BF,

FWIW, my first car was a Cadillac Hearse, biggest "backseat" around =|;)

Bill Fleming

Now we're talkin', William. ^5

KB

Donald: I hope we can be friends. I have certainly welcomed your comments here. Accusing me of racism is altogether uncalled for. I criticized the President's rhetoric for its obvious echoes, but I also defended him against the charge that those echoes were deliberate. However you judge my arguments, there was surely nothing racist about them. Unless, that is, you think that any criticism of the President is racist.

Bill: when Tea Party groups and other groups allied with Republicans launch "Count every vote units" and run commercials warning people against illegally voting, it alarms a lot of folks. It ought to. There is nothing wrong with wanting to see that the voting laws are observed and cheating is prevented. Nothing that any of these groups has said indicates that they are aiming at anything else. But it surely reminds anyone who has any historical memory of voter intimidation. I am not saying that these groups should be shut down or that their methods or intentions are bad. I am just saying that history ought to be considered here.

If any Republican anywhere had said that Obama and his party can ride in the car but they have to ride in the back, the Democrats would have been all over that. It would have been taken as a sign of blatant racism. No one on your side would have doubted for a moment that the back of the car was the same as the back of the bus. I don't see how you could honestly think otherwise.

As I said, I don't think that the obvious metaphor was the President's intention. My point was that the remark was objectionable for other reasons.

KB

Donald: I hope we can be friends. I have certainly welcomed your comments here. Accusing me of racism is altogether uncalled for. I criticized the President's rhetoric for its obvious echoes, but I also defended him against the charge that those echoes were deliberate. However you judge my arguments, there was surely nothing racist about them. Unless, that is, you think that any criticism of the President is racist.

Bill: when Tea Party groups and other groups allied with Republicans launch "Count every vote units" and run commercials warning people against illegally voting, it alarms a lot of folks. It ought to. There is nothing wrong with wanting to see that the voting laws are observed and cheating is prevented. Nothing that any of these groups has said indicates that they are aiming at anything else. But it surely reminds anyone who has any historical memory of voter intimidation. I am not saying that these groups should be shut down or that their methods or intentions are bad. I am just saying that history ought to be considered here.

If any Republican anywhere had said that Obama and his party can ride in the car but they have to ride in the back, the Democrats would have been all over that. It would have been taken as a sign of blatant racism. No one on your side would have doubted for a moment that the back of the car was the same as the back of the bus. I don't see how you could honestly think otherwise.

As I said, I don't think that the obvious metaphor was the President's intention. My point was that the remark was objectionable for other reasons.

RobinW

I think our seemingly articulate President knows exactly the implications and double meaning of his words - he’s the one playing the racist card. Recall the GZ mosque, first he said he would not comment on it because it was a local issue, next he whispered, rather loudly at a state dinner, of the Constitutional right to build the mosque, then the next day when confronted, he dithered on whether the previous statement was in support of the mosque saying he would not comment on the wisdom of building the mosque.
Is our President racist? maybe not; but he plays the pandering racist card – look no further than the black panther voter intimidation case dismissal (he misplayed a great chance to show his integrity) or recall his statement concerning the Cambridge police “ I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played”… the police in Cambridge "acted stupidly.
Finally, Obama may think he’s clever but he will soon discover that most of America does not appreciate the same jokes a second time! He, Pelosi, and Reid claim they are not getting credit for Obamacare – I think they are but it’s not the sort of credit they thought was owed to them! Sort of like the their method of accounting – a credit is really a debit!

George Mason

Congratulations KB you have achieved the exulted position where liberals call you a racists. This used to be their last resort now more and more it is their first. Witness the attacks on the Tea Party movement. As with you, no signs of racism exist but, since the charge of racism has always been their heavy artillery they roll it out at every opportunity. They have made the charge so superficial that it no longer has any punch for them. People like Obama and Donald and Williams are incapable of looking in their souls and finding where real racism resides

Bill Fleming

All kidding aside, it's obvious, KB.

The meme is about children and/or childish behavior.
A father/owner/driver telling the kids/car poolers, etc who gets to sit where.
Everybody wants"dibs" to ride shotgun. Kids squabble over it. Dad decides.
Same with car poolers. There is nothing inherently racist about it.
Paternalistic sure. Racist, no.

Now, a spoiled brat or a whiner car pooler, full of resentment might
try to turn it into that, though. "You're just picking on me because...
("I'm a girl, skinny, white, the youngest, etc...")

And the smart people in the car would probably call them out if they did.

Because dad's trying to drive, so don't stop bothering him.

That's the meme. Not the "back of the bus."

Summary:
The back of the bus is BS, KB, OK?

KB

Bill: I offered you a chance to be honest. You didn't take it. If a Republican had said exactly what the President did, Democrats would be called for his resignation. No honest person could doubt that.

Bill Fleming

And I offered you one, KB. You're seeing something that's not there.
Now, that may not be dishonest on your part, however.
It may just be delusional. Either way, you are the one playing
the race card here, not Obama. If you can't see that, maybe you
should get some counseling.

p.s. I know what it's like to have Republicans say outrageous things,
believe me. And here's what I think should be done about it when it happens:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/manchin-web-ad-john-raese-is-an-imperial-storm-trooper-video.php?ref=fpc

Bill Fleming

KB, your "sin" here is not so much that you are framing this around ethnicity,
it is rather that you are stating an opinion and trying to insist that it's a fact.

That's not uncommon among those unschooled in critical thinking, but it is somewhat
more egregious when presented by an academic who claims to value objectivity.

It's also counterproductive to a zen student seeking enlightenment.

Your cup is too full, grass hoppah. Empty it out.

Donald Pay

You know, KB, I have no idea what's in your heart regarding race. What I do know is that playing the poor downtrodden white race card, yelling about minority voter fraud and, lately, putting up scary pictures of Mexicans, seems to be a curse of your party's leadership since the Nixon years. It's pretty sad, because when I was young (and a Republican), the Republicans were viewed as the Party of Lincoln. Now they are the party of Helms and Thurmond and other Southern whites who walked out of a racist Democratic Party that was reforming itself. When your party welcomed these people into your fold you made a pact with the devil to win elections, and now you can't seem to shake that devil off of you, even with Michael Steele as your Chairman. This has become pretty typical end-of-election behavior by Republicans that it now is just part of the institutional racism of your Party.

When you get the information through whatever part of the echo chamber that was used to put out this "back of the bus" meme, you might want to more closely examine it. Whether you are a racist, or just a conduit for racist ideas of others, it really doesn't make that much difference.

Mike Cooper

I don't always agree with KB, and I see both sides of this argument. However, KB is not racist, but Donald and Bill, you are sounding shrill. It is time to change the subject.

Bill Fleming

Mike, if anything, it is KB's argument that seemed shrill to me.

Please excuse me if I felt compelled to rebut him.

It was my intention to do so with a measure of good humor.

If that didn't come through, then I have perhaps failed as a writer.

It wouldn't be the first time.

I don't think KB is being intentionally racist either. Nor do I think that of Obama.

There, is that clear enough?

Maybe I should have jst said that in the first place instead of trying to be clever.

Thank you for your guidance on that.

And I agree. I'll be done with this now.

KB

I think we have about beat this one into the ground. I have come to know Donald and Bill pretty well through their comments. Bill is neither an idiot nor an ass, but I can't get him to stop arguing with me about a point on which we agree. I certainly don't think that the "back of the car" comment was racist. I acknowledge the connection with the President's car metaphor.

I thought it only fair to point out that the "back of the car" language would certainly have been taken as racist if it had been used by a Republican. So far neither Bill nor Donald have seen fit to deny that point because it is undeniable. When Sarah Palin called President Obama "The professor" she was called racist for it. There is at least as much distance between professors and racists as there is between raccoons and pandas, to use Bill's metaphor. I think the President has a tin ear. When he said that Lawrence Summers did "a heck of a job" to Jon Stewart, he proved that.

In the current environment, Republicans are likely to be called racists for any criticism of the President. Donald proves my point. If he didn't exist, I would have to invent him. He accuses me of racism and of being a "conduit for racist ideas." There is not one shred of proof for either accusation. In such an environment, Democrats don't deserve to get off free.

I am done with this one, I expect. Feel free to keep it going whoever thinks it worthwhile.

Donald Pay

Well, KB, let's look at this meme. Your post went up October 26, but one day before we have this:

http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/2010/10/25/obama-republicans-gotta-sit-in-the-back/

http://www.beaufortobserver.net/Articles-c-2010-10-25-248266.112112-Obama-relegates-Republicans-to-the-back-of-the-bus.html

You can look at posts similar to KB's, all of which went up on October 26 or October 27. There are a lot of them, so I've picked three:

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2010/10/obama-relegates.html

http://randysright.wordpress.com/2010/10/26/barack-obama-remarks-its-time-you-sit-in-back-of-the-bus/

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201010260017

It appears KB was just one of seveal carrying this racist meme through the right wing echo chamber. None of the right wing bloggers or "news and opinion" outlets seemed to have fact checked the quote, or if they did, they ran with their racist interpretation of it anyway. When the facts came out, KB didn't have the common decency to back off the meme or correct the story. This is pretty common among right wing bloggers, who are invested more in b.s. than in reality.

Michael Fischer

I don't think people realize that a lot of what slips out of Obama's lips is actually Marxist doctrine picked up by a lifetime of steeping in their juice. He gets on a roll and as the Bible says, "in the multitude of words there lacketh not sin" or as Jesus so aptly put it, "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh!" Suddenly he finds himself having said something from his heart that his head had no intention of saying and now we have it. Communists, Marxists, Socialists, and I'm naming them all because some folks want to split hairs over what each name means, have had no problem in the past doing away with those who do not think like they do. We need to wake up and realize where this President has been, and what he has been fed his whole life. Then go to my website and listen to my new song called, "Mommy, Mommy, Obama's a Commie!" It's at www.thefischers.net. The video will be up soon but you can at least catch the audio.

Michael Fischer

I don't think people realize that a lot of what slips out of Obama's lips is actually Marxist doctrine picked up by a lifetime of steeping in their juice. He gets on a roll and as the Bible says, "in the multitude of words there lacketh not sin" or as Jesus so aptly put it, "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh!" Suddenly he finds himself having said something from his heart that his head had no intention of saying and now we have it. Communists, Marxists, Socialists, and I'm naming them all because some folks want to split hairs over what each name means, have had no problem in the past doing away with those who do not think like they do. We need to wake up and realize where this President has been, and what he has been fed his whole life. Then go to my website and listen to my new song called, "Mommy, Mommy, Obama's a Commie!" It's at www.thefischers.net. The video will be up soon but you can at least catch the audio.

Donald Pay

Michael, "Thou shalt not bear false witness." You would be better off spending the time it took you to bear false witness above to pray that God helps you overcome some of your own sins and self-righteousness.

William

Donald,

Do you believe that a centralized state governed by the "best and brightest" should rule over the citizens of the state?

Do you believe that governmental power should be centralized by a powerful national government, or dispersed to its states in a republican form of governance?

Do you believe that individuals have "natural rights" that a limited government must recognize and uphold above the interests of the state?

Donald Pay

William,

(1) No.
(2) I believe in the Constitution, which set up a strong national government. A republican form of government is one in which the people have a say in government, such as electing the leadership. Let me point out that the Founders were very leery of very much popular control of government.
(3) Yes.

MrUniteUs

It's obvious the President was referring to the back seat of the
car. Everyone reading this has either heard or used the phrase "Sit in the back"
meaning sit in the back seat of the car in their own personal lives.


MrUniteUs

The President didn't say bus.
But right winger race baiters are saying he did.

That's wrong and those doing it should apologize, to the President
and the American people.



MrUniteUs

The President didn't say bus.
But right winger race baiters are saying he did.

That's wrong and those doing it should apologize, to the President
and the American people.



MrUniteUs

It's obvious the President was referring to the back seat of the
car. Everyone reading this has either heard or used the phrase "Sit in the back"
meaning sit in the back seat of the car in their own personal lives.

ye olde observere

If it does not make a difference, then why did Fox News change it?
And how is it OK for Steele to tell Pelosi she'll be riding in the back of the bus, and not for Obama to tell republicans, that if you do not win an election, you ride the back of the car?

It's obvious and understandable that the loss of the last presidential election sticks in the republicans' craw. But the lenghts they are prepared to go to to avenge this, don't tell of the 'compassionate conservatism' their last president was so big about. Rather they reek of passionate vindictiveness, a negative sentiment that can hardly be used as a basis for the 'restauration' of anything.

Dick Hurtz

Actually, he didn't make any kind of racist reference about sitting in the back of the bus. He said car. Do your research you backwoods inbreds.

Michael Fischer

Donald, why do you say I am bearing false witness. Go listen to my song, "Mommy, Mommy, Obama's a Commie!" at: www.thefischers.net It's on the store page at the top. I think for you come out like you did extremely self righteous yourself. I made a statement backed up by the words of Jesus himself. I choose to revere them rather than yours. It's easy to sit there proclaim that others are self righteous. It's something that churchy religious Christians do to avoid dealing with the truth.

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know why your name is delusion my god man read my ceonmmt carefully i mearly pointed out facts i did not say i want us to adapt to communist values amd moral standards trump is correct in that chinas trade practices and currency manipulation makes its impossible for our companies to compete effectively i like your second ceonmmt that is right on the money

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Trump, like Palin, is yet another the new reubalicpn, looney tune, cartoon character political candidates. Do nothing, know nothing but you really don't have to. Can't you hill billies just go back to rewriting and romantising the Ronnie Ray-gun legacy and look for a few quality candidates?

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