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Sunday, July 04, 2010

Comments

Anthony

The only concern David Klinghoffer has is to discredit Darwin with the hope that science will collapse soon after than. The theory of evolution is the underpinning of modern Biology. Mr. Klinghoffer should take time refreshing his understanding of modern European history and science. Then he can write an informed opinion pieces on those two topics with only combining topics that are based on facts.

Donald Pay

I absolutely agree with you here, but you also probably know that several of the scientists (particularly R.A. Fisher) who carried on studies in evolution, genetics and population biology after Darwin did try to extend Darwin's theory into theories of human eugenics. The Nazis used a particularly twisted version of eugenics theory to justify their racial purity theories and their "final solution." Fisher was a brilliant man, and contributed a lot to statistics, evolution, ecology and other fields. He was also a racist, but he did not believe in killing people to achieve his eugenic goals. He was more concerned with low fecundity rates among the higher class, so his solution was for upper class whites to "get busy." Today evolutionary scientists don't consider Fisher's eugenic theories valid, though much of his other work is hailed as revolutionary.

John Wilkins

A few points:

1. If the subhumans outbreed the Aryans, then on a Darwinian account, they are fitter, Hitler notwithstanding.

2. Hitler and the Nazis used Koch, not Darwin. They repeatedly used a hygiene metaphor, comparing Jews, Slavs and Gypsies to a vermin infestation that carried disease. So, should we treat epidemiology and hygiene as tained because of the use to which the Nazis put it?

3. Eugenics depends more on genetics than evolution, so I suppose we should abandon genetics too?

4. There are two kinds of eugenics: positive and negative. A negative eugenicist attempts to eliminate the "pathological idiots", but the positive eugenicist, of whom Fisher was one, merely encouraged the "fit" (i.e., upper class educated English) to breed more. To ascribe the sins of the one to the other is to make a bad historical judgement. Not that I expect the Discovery Idiots to pay that any mind.

KB

Thanks for the comment, Donald. I don't doubt that are some folks out there that used Darwin for racists arguments. It was certainly true of the Social Darwinists. But as John Wilkins points out, the Social Darwinist argument contains a contradiction. If you need to intervene in order to limit the procreation of the lower types, then they aren't lower in any Darwinian sense.

Donald Pay

Not to get too far into the weeds on this, but also guarding against overbroad generalizations in your piece, there are any number of reproductive strategies that have evolved, and all of them can impart advantages over the others, depending on environmental conditions. While sexual reproduction generally confers more genetic diversity than others (generally a good thing), you do find that selfing and asexual reproduction have often evolved from sexually reproducing species. Why would this be? There are times when the advantages imparted by mechanisms that promote greater genetic diversity impart a cost that is greater than the advantages imparted by selfing or asexual reproduction.

There is a lot of information out there on reproductive strategies, but here's and interesting one which deals with the evolution of selfing in one plant species.

http://www.pnas.org/content/106/13/5241.full

KB

Donald: strange as it feels, I can't disagree with anything you say here. Yes, some species seem to do quite well with genetic purity. Biology is not a study for people who want unambiguous laws. I would be interested to learn of a case like with among mammals. I am pretty sure that, among ape populations, genetic diversity is a pretty good thing.

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