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Tuesday, March 30, 2010

Comments

sean

Crazy on both sides one is farrrr more crazier on the other side, you know the crazier side, gun tooting, patriotic, fake-bible even if its not your book, isreal first even if its not your country,

A.I.

From the Christian Science Monitor: "Nationwide, the patriot movement has grown dramatically since the election of President Obama. Between 2008 and 2009, the number of such groups increased from 149 to 512, SPLC numbers suggest."

Indeed, such groups are "growing in numbers". Some of this growth is no doubt inspired by economic stress as Michigan is apparently a hot bed of such activity. But the Right's and the Republic Party's proclivity toward rallying around the illegitimate notions that Obama is a socialist, satanic, foreign-born, wants to take away our freedom and or destroy America is hardly helpful if they desire--as some claim--to establish a more civil dialogue.

And by the way, it should be noted that your contention that Obama is "the most Leftist President yet" is little more than that; a contention that can not be supported by empirical evidence. And if establishing social programs is the basis for you contention, FDR and LBJ, are spinning in their graves.

A.I.

Almost forgot, Norman (the loon) Leboon appears to be an unaffiliated wacko.

KB

A.I.: the Southern Poverty Law Center is a very partisan organization with a strong vested interest in encouraging fear and loathing of right wingers. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Over the years I have seen their numbers scrutinized, and they do not stand up.

What counts as a group and how many individuals do these group numbers represent? SPLC will count a group if it sees a group name on a website, even if there is no evidence that more than one person was behind the site. And even if the numbers were accurate, 512 is hardly "explosive growth." How many bridge clubs are there in Montgomery Alabama?

Your point about Obama's leftward lean if fair. I do not think he is a closet communist, as some Tea Party fanatics do. I do think he is marginally further to the left than any previous president. The social programs of FDR were modest by comparison (when they were created). ObamaCare starts out gargantuan. LBJ, well you may have me there.

Norman Leboon is no more nor less "unaffiliated" than the Hutaree group. That was my point.

Guard

None of this really matters.

RJ

You were, of course, incorrect when you wrote "Of course, you have to include Islamic militants on "the right,"." The Islamic militants have no conservative or liberal ideology - they believe you are either a believer (you should die for your belief in the Koran) or an infidel (you should die because you don't believe in the Koran). Ultimately, they have it right...we are all going to die.

KB

Guard: You sound like the turtle in A Never Ending Story.

Guard

KB: I might just be the Turtle in the Never Ending Story...lol

KB

RJ: It was correct of me to say that you would have to include Islamic terrorists under the category of "the right" if you want to argue that serious domestic terrorism is coming from the right these days.

Guard: I meant the turtle thing in a loving way. I loved that big turtle: "not that it matters, but..."

William

Part of this regurgitates a response I made to the earlier Krugman post, but while I think we can all agree that there are "whackos" on both the left & right "LEFTIST political violence is the real issue in this country and has been for years."

"At least 250 people were arrested outside the Republican Convention last night as police used tear gas and pepper spray to disperse rioters attacking property and blocking roads in protest at the war in Iraq."... "once the main antiwar march had finished, splinter groups embarked on a violent rampage, smashing windows, slashing car tyres, throwing bottles and even attacking Republican delegates attending the nearby Xcel Centre."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4660503.ece

The Left only sees their own reflection when they attack their opponents as "racist", "violent", "astroturf", etc. The party I identify with race obsession, violence and phony "astroturf" grassroots organizations is, and has been, the Left and the Democratic Party it's taken control of for the last 43 years.

FWIW, I consider the Southern Poverty Law Center a left wing "hate group". Morris Dees appears to consider any group that is not statist and race/gender/"social justice"/secularist" goal oriented to be a "hate group". His suspect groups appear to include veterans, Christians, gun owners, Republicans, Libertarians, the Upper Midwest (excluding Minnesota), our nation's founders and people who like apple pie.

Guard

This Turtle says: Remain firm in your Faith and Let go and Let God.

KB

William: SPLC is not a hate group. It is just a very partisan group. I think it's okay to have a group looking under every stone for extremists, but the SPLC has a vested interest in finding them and its numbers are not to be trusted.

William

KB, if Morris Dees doesn't HATE me, I'm pretty sure he has (at least) an extreme dislike for me (and people like me) - lol

Male, rural, middle-aged, White, Christian, gun owning, veteran...

Stace Nelson

@William as well as our own Obama administration who consider veterans like us as potential terrorists due to our conservative views. My own liberal Democrat opponent claims to be "like a conservative Republican," amongst conservative voters, however decries me a radical as a real Reagan Conservative Republican. It must be difficult trying to be a chameleon, it would explain his anger at my asking him about several key votes he cast against bills to protect children from child molesters and his own professed confusion as to why he voted against them. I may need a current tetanus shot to deal with the irony.

William

Stace,

I think they're concerned about those of us that took an oath to preserve and protect the Constitution for reasons other than taking a political office. I suspect they're alarmed that we actually take that oath seriously, unlike some of our political and judicial office holders.

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