« Dead Plan Walking | Main | Corporate Personhood »

Friday, January 22, 2010

Comments

caheidelberger

"Obviously corporate bodies do not enjoy the same rights as individual citizens. Corporations do not get to vote."

"Obviously" makes me nervous. Obviously corporations are not people. Obviously they are not endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights. But if we can extend First Amendment speech protection to a legal fiction, can we not extend voting rights via the Fourteenth Amendment (or 20th? shall we deny corporations the vote because they are neither male nor female?)?

Maybe corporate personhood doesn't need to be all-or-nothing, but for me to give up the "nothing" position, you'll need to provide a clearer threshold than "Obviously" to persuade me it won't be "all".

George Mason

Cory; Under the laws of our country a corporation is a legal "person"(although not a citizen). A corporation is after all a group of people who have assembled for their common good (and prosperity). The first amendment also guarantees the right to assembly and the right to petition the government for redress of grievances (and do we have a lot of those right now). The Supreme Court in this decision has allowed people, either individually or collectively, to exercise their rights. They are not granting the right to vote here and it is rather silly to make that extrapolation. If the owners of a corporation (the shareholders) do not want to be involved in political campaigns they have the right to express their opposition and demand a vote. This is a more democratic process than you will find with the unions where the leadership doles out campaign cash and objections are met with intimidation. Chances are the Obama administration will not be enforcing the Beck decision anytime soon.

KB

George and Cory: I think it is a fair question why "corporate voting" is not a logical consequence of corporate personhood. After all, corporate bodies get to vote all the time. The U.S. votes in the U.N. States vote in the U.S. Senate. We could conceivably give Microsoft a seat in the House.

But in the American Republic, the fundamental stage of voting is restricted to individual citizens. That's because the consent of individual persons is the sole source of the legitimacy of government. So on foundational principles, voting for representatives is restricted to individual persons.

Voting rights are restricted among individuals in all sorts of ways. Only citizens get to vote, and only those of a certain age. Freedom of speech is not similarly subject to government restrictions. Government cannot abridge the freedom of speech of a fourteen year old or non-citizens. On the other hand, many freedoms protected in the Constitution have no application to corporate persons. I doubt that Victoria's Secret can be said to exercise freedom of religion. Since Corporations do not have physical bodies, they probably cannot enjoy freedom of assembly.

There are practical reasons for that restriction as well. If we give Microsoft a vote, why not Chuck E. Cheese? And what counts as a corporation with voting rights? Do big companies or public advocacy groups get just one vote, or does their vote depend on size? What about subsidiary corporations?

So I don't think that corporate voting is something we have to worry about if we accept corporate personhood.

The problem with your "nothing" position (an absolute rejection of corporate personhood) is that it is simply untenable. Can government confiscate the treasury of the ACLU or the NRA? If those organizations have a right to money that is held corporately rather than by individuals, then corporate personhood is a fact.

The only real question then is whether this specific right, free speech, applies to corporate bodies. I think the Court was right to say that it does, for reasons offered above.

Erik

KB: Interesting post. I listened to Gingrich on NPR and he was also parroting the anti-incumbent line on this decision, and left the door open to running (again) for President. Interesting. Just curious, do you see this opinion more in the line of the Rovian GOP agenda to roll things back to the late Gilded Age. One of the Rove's idols is McKinley (perhaps Rove was Hannah to Bush the Younger's McKinley) and Bush the Youngers appointees were the decisive votes on this....

KB

Erik! Great to hear from you. Just out of curiosity, who were Gingrich and I "parroting"? I can understand why present circumstances might be distressing to you. After all, weren't you telling me only a few months ago how the Republicans were merely a regional Southern party?

But maybe the Supreme Court majority decided the case the way it did because the five justices believe in freedom of speech, and not because they were part of any "Rovian" agenda. Everyone on the left assumes that this decision will benefit corporations, but is there any evidence for this? It will also free up all the activist organizations that are anti-business.

For that matter, it is obvious that money spent in this way has any appreciable effect on the outcome. The Democrats outspent the Republicans by a mile in Massachusetts. Guess what?

Anyway, great to hear from you. Now that A.I. doesn't love me any more, I miss the old gang.

Erik

KB: It is still a long way to November ;-). More later.

KB

Yes, Erik, it is a long way to November. Thanks for that comment, as it is a good lead in for my next post. I look forward to the rest of your comment.

The comments to this entry are closed.