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Saturday, September 05, 2009


Travis Dahle

I absolutely agree with you that we are not Obama's servants - that elected officials are servants of the people. Unfortunately, I distinctly remember people being called unpatriotic for even disagreeing with President Bush for several years. You not only couldn't criticize him, you had to support him, otherwise you were supporting terrorists.

Its not so much that I get upset with people not wanting to support Obama - it is your absolute right to. What I can't stomach is the blatant hypocrisy of people who just a few years ago said that I was a terrorist and un-american if I disagreed with the President. I wonder where those people are now? Are they calling conservatives and others who are fighting against President Obama tooth and nail un-american? I highly doubt it.

Again, I absolutely agree with you that you shouldn't have to follow Obama - there should be dissent and there should be debate. Let's just not have a double-standard when it is someone you agree with who is in a leadership position.

Miranda Flint

Travis: Thanks you for stopping by. I am not among those who suggested that dissenters were unpatriotic, simply because they criticized Bush. I did suggest that those who waved signs saying that we should shoot our own soldiers, those who claimed that America was the worst country in the world and those who called America a country of terrorists unpatriotic, but, well, they were.

At any rate, I agree with you. None of us should be servants or sheep no matter who the master is or what party he belongs to. I certainly would not have pledged to serve Bush, not even if Bruce Willis or James Woods made it look cool.


is this pledge still a part of obama's presentation, or did he take it out?


Where are you getting information that the Demi Moore video is to accompany Obama address?


To be a little more precise, a school in Utah (of all places) did show the I pledge film. That was quite apart from any address by Obama. Is this incident being construed as something the administration endorsed? And are people assuming because one school did it, all will?


Could it be that someone who doesn't care much for Obama (I understate sometimes) started a rumor that Obama's address on Tuesday would be accompanied by "The Pledge" in hopes the rumor would go viral and stir an uprising. The administration would be forced to say we never had any such plans, which they didn't. But really, the denial would make little difference to the rumor monger's target audience because the rejoinder would be Obama only took it out because people protested.


to be honest, i hadn't heard that the video was a part of the original address. though, the original address did have elements of the pledge video -- e.g., "how can i help the president." i just don't think the video is or ever was planned for next week's speech.

i'm fine with my 1st grader watching the president of the united states talk about the importance of education. might be kinda cool, even. but if he ventures off into anything resembling that pledge video, he'll have lost my trust, forever.


Travis. You say: "I distinctly remember people being called unpatriotic for even disagreeing with President Bush for several years. You not only couldn't criticize him, you had to support him, otherwise you were supporting terrorists." I don't think you remember any such thing, distinctly or otherwise. I think you remember a lot of people saying such a thing. I have heard people say over and over that their patriotism was questioned for disagreeing with President Bush, but so far I have not seen a single instance of such a thing confirmed. Before you start Googling, ask yourself: can you really distinctly remember by whom or when such a claim was made? Now Google and see if you can find a citation.

The "I pledge" clip is goofy. I will withhold judgment on the Obama Administration until I see clear evidence that they really intended to put this clip in some kind of package and distribute or otherwise endorse it. If they did, it is another stupid mistake. But the President doesn't have to take responsibility for every goofy thing said by someone who pledges to be the President's servant. That goes double for the United Folk of Funkadelphia.

Miranda Flint

Thanks, A.I. You're right. It looks like this was only shown in one school. So shame on that school and shame on me for not realizing that this was a single incident.


So you seriously did not know that this video was not a part of Obamas speech to the kids? Sad that your headline will live as a reminder. Do you really feel shame?


I pledge allegiance to the funk, to the united funk of funkadelica.



You said earlier that I do my research and keep you honest and you appreciate my posts because of that. It's so sad that you haven't learned how to be intellectually honest and need other to keep you so.

Grow the fuck up.


Oh nvm, it was Flint. But she's a moron anyway, so yeah, disregard that last part of the last comment. Flint is the one who needs to grow the fuck up.

I still think you need to hold yourself to a standard Ken and actually fact check things that seem crazy. Parroting idiocies them only makes you seem crazy too. It's not our job to check the veracity of every word that leaves your brain. There is supposed to be a check at the doorway between your brain and the outside world where crazy stuff stays in and not crazy verifiable thoughts come out. Maybe you need to fire your doorman.


FS: you do indeed bring something to these conversations, including the emotional maturity of a blueberry scone.


Interesting! This was produced by Harpo Productions i.e. Oprah Winfrey. Go figure.

I pledge my patriotism to the constitution of the United States of America and to our veterans who fight and die to protect us and this great country.

Let us continue to stand tall and proud.

Miranda Flint

FS: It's a little funny to me, FS that you do the same thing that you complain so passionately about. You accuse Dr. Blanchard of not checking his facts, when you, yourself mistakenly blamed him for my mistakes. You ask people to "grow up", but most of us have been very civil to you, while you prefer to hurl juvenile insults about. You'll forgive me, then, if I have a hard time taking your advice seriously.

Jana: Thank you for joining the discussion. It is embarrassing to have misjudged the magnitude of this situation and I am certainly sorry if I misled anyone. However, my error was unintentional and my comments were not entirely without base. In the Utah case, every one of my comments applies. And I think it was important for what I said to be said. Our kids are not servants of Obama and the video is worrisome, especially, but not only in a school setting. Certainly, since this only happened at one school, it is not as worrisome as I originally thought it was. On the other hand, the incident in Utah is not the first of its kind.

Consider the case of the Obama Choir, where elementary school children sing a hymn like song to Obama at the direction of their very...passionate director:

or the Alpha Omega Obama chant that led to one teacher's suspension:

I am not blaming Obama for these things. They are not his fault, but I think that this sort of adoration is unhealthy and I never saw anything remotely like it when Bush was in office. It would be one thing if these kids acted on their own. But when adults put them up to it, it's a problem.

So, yes. I am embarrassed that I thought the video was part of the speech package. I am not embarrassed about what I said about the video.

Miranda Flint

Mya: Thank you. It's nice to see some respect of civic values.

Travis Dahle

Dr. Blanchard,

There are several specific things about being called out for dissenting against the President. "You're either with us or against us" - G.W. Bush "The President considers this nation to be at war, and, as such, considers any opposition to his policies to be no less than an act of treason." - White House Spokesman.

The New York Times reported in November 2003 that the Federal Bureau of Investigation "has collected extensive information on the tactics, training and organization of antiwar demonstrators and has advised local law enforcement officials to report any suspicious activity at protests to its counterterrorism squad. ... But some civil rights advocates and legal scholars said the monitoring program could signal a return to the abuses of the 1960's and 1970's, when J. Edgar Hoover was the F.B.I. director and agents routinely spied on political protesters like the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr." http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/23/national/23FBI.html

Those are just three quick examples of what I remember and others remember and there are plenty more. I don't appreciate being told that I don't remember something - clearly I have a better recollection of what is in my head than anyone else does - I know your smart Dr. Blanchard, but I don't think you can read my mind from Aberdeen :)

There are plenty of citations out there - The Daily Show even has had plenty of clips of conservative commentators saying that you can't criticize the President and then has them criticizing the President now.


Oh good grief. The video will not be shown in schools and was never planned to be shown. That's all made-up crap. Get a clue.


Travis: You have confirmed my point better than I could. The Daily Show is a comedy show. Sorry.

The New York Times paragraph concerns FBI monitoring of anti-war groups. Here is what the FBI said about that monitoring: "F.B.I. officials said in interviews that the intelligence-gathering effort was aimed at identifying anarchists and "extremist elements" plotting violence, not at monitoring the political speech of law-abiding protesters." Whatever one thinks about monitoring extemists groups, no one is saying that anyone who criticized the President or the war was guilty of treason or un-American.

You begin with this quote: "According to an unnamed White House spokesman quoted in the article, "The President considers this nation to be at war, and, as such, considers any opposition to his policies to be no less than an act of treason." Really, Travis! An "unnamed White House spokesman"? No source cited? There is no evidence any Bush Administration said that.

Finally you quote G.W. Bush to his effect: "You're either with us or against us." Okay. Who is he talking to and what is he talking about? Wouldn't a little context and venue information help us decided what this means?

In fact the President said it in a news conference with Jacques Chirac in November of 2001. Here is a bit more from CNN: ""Over time it's going to be important for nations to know they will be held accountable for inactivity," he said. "You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror."" Bush is talking about NATIONS that remain neutral in the war against al Qaeda. He wasn't talking about domestic opposition to the war. He certainly wasn't talking about you, Travis.

You made a flamboyant accusation. You said that you: "distinctly remember people being called unpatriotic for even disagreeing with President Bush for several years. You not only couldn't criticize him, you had to support him, otherwise you were supporting terrorists." You can't come up with a shred to evidence to support that claim. What you distinctly remember is what Democrats and other critics of Bush said over and over. It is also something that never happened.

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